best self defence solution?

**Forthaney** · April 28th, 2008, 08:31 PM

New here.
I had a permit to carry but it expired. I no longer have any hand guns at my wifes request for the children's benifit. I use a shotgun for home protection. I plan on getting a new one that is better suited for this purpose. But this is not part of my question. I just wanted to mention this so it is clear that I'm not new to guns and gun ownership. I understand the law and am a reasonable person. I would rather walk away anytime then get hurt. I am a role model for my children. I wanted to establish this before you read my concern.

Here is my question. 2 days ago, I was taking my children for a walk at a park a few blocks from my home. Walking along the sidewalk, we approached 3 young teens. They were being loud and talking about getting into a fight with someone. I really paid little attention to them but focused on my children's safety on the sidewalk. As we got closer the teens decided to walk onto the side walk. one teen, who was larger than me, had his hood over his head and did not see me. He turned to step on the side walk and bumped into me. I said " Oh sorry about that" and kept walking. I really thought nothing of it. Now keep in mind I have 2 children ages 2 and 4 in tow. At this point this large teen said "Hey whats up with that..what the FU@#....." You get my point. I said" Hey Im really sorry about that the kids keep be busy". I called my children to get them closer to me and pulled my cell phone out and started dialing 911. I kept walking and acted as If I was calling a friend. The teens turned away and I went home. I did not call 911 since that was the end of it. But if the teens approached us , I would have called 911. But;

after all of thiswas over, when I got home, I was so angry and frustrated that I felt so defenceless if they decide to confront me even if I had called 911. I actually felt afraid that that could happen. This cause me to look into some defencive tools. So here is my question.

What is the best way to defend yourself and children in this situation? It is clear that deadly force is not the answer and just showing a gun could get you in trouble.

Three things I have considered: I do not live in Philadelphia
1. Pepper spray
2. stun gun / taser
3. ASP expandable baton or any good brand.

I have never used any of these in a defence situation so I do not know how effective each is. It is to my understanding that the baton could not be legal in Pennsylvania? Which makes no sense to me, if someone gets confronts you and gets close enough to get hit they are the aggressor.

Well I have cooled down but dont want to feel that way again. So I plan to take action to protect my children and myself in the future. what would be the best way to do this and stay justified in the eye of the law if i had to use any of these.

I would be no good as a parent if I ended up in jail for over reacting and using excessive force. I would only use such methods when I felt deep in my gut that I was in a very bad situation. I rarely over react but I do react.

So any input?

**NineseveN** · April 28th, 2008, 08:46 PM

Sorry to hear about that experience, I'm sure it was both terrifying and eye-opening. Personally, if I had my two children there (I don't have kids), I probably would have commanded them to stay back and drawn my firearm if they progressed the situation (not pointing it at them or shooting, just making a show of force, shooting or holding at gunpoint would have been a bit premature).

However, in the absence of a firearm as in your case, Fox Labs or Saber Defense OC spray is the only real viable answer. A taser works, but only on one target at a time. It's not like a firearm where you can tap two on the primary BG and be ready for more. An ASP, unless you really know how to use it well is a liability in my opinion. With three or more BG's, it takes too long to take all of them out of the fight and you have to be in contact distance to do so; not good.

So your answer is OC spray, but I'd still think harder about the gun thing and then get some firearms training for defensive scenarios if there is any leeway.

**CoyoteJack** · April 28th, 2008, 09:01 PM

Protecting your children from a handgun you own isn't really all that hard. There are numerous option for keeping it locked up while it isn't under your immediate control. Also you mentioned having a shotgun so firearm safety in the home is still an issue. A shotgun isn't anymore safe around kids than a pistol.

All of the items you mentioned have their pluses and minuses. Pepper spray can be effective, unless it is windy. Tasers require training to be truly effective and aren't that effective against multiple aggressors. The baton can be useful but again requires training.

There is no ideal solution. Whatever you decide will require motivation (which you would seem to have, ie the kids) and training in its use or at least in your options when it fails you. more than one option is always best. Just the same with a firearm as it is with anything else. Training is more valuable than any other thing.

Honestly ask yourself and your wife if not owning a handgun is really beneficial for the kids. Even if you don't have one in your home firearm safety should be taught to every child. Ignorance and curiousity is what causes the greatest problem. Teach them firearm safety till they are sick of hearing about. That way if they are ever in a situation where a firearm is found, whether at home or a friends house, they'll hopefully know better than to mess with it.

Carrying conceal regularly for me seems to keep me much more alert to my surroundings. I can't recall the last time I let someone bump into me. I'm always afraid they'll bump my carry piece and realize what it is. I also carry a knife and a tactical light which can double as a defensive baton in a pinch.

My wife carries a kuboton with her keys and recently a quality pepper spray.

**crakkajakka15** · April 28th, 2008, 09:19 PM

I feel your pain ...... in that situation, like NineseveN said, tell them to stay back or away, if they took another step I would of repeated my last statement even louder.... and if they progressed again ...... (keeping in mind of that 21 foot rule).....business end of my 9mm. Especially if the BG was bigger than you, and getting belligerent, and clearly out of control over simply walking into you.

**Keith4001r** · April 28th, 2008, 10:20 PM

It's bad enough that these... fill in the blank... think they own the sidewalk, and are brave enough for 3 of them to curse at a man with 2 small kids in tow. I'd rethink your home's handgun ban and re apply for your LTCF.

If firearms are definately out I'd investigate the martial arts, particularly Krav Maga. It teaches empty hand defense as well as disarming singular or multiple assailants. The learning curve is steep, ie, you'll be able to put up a decent defense in a short amount of training time. Just Google Krav Maga and surf away.

Best of luck to you.

**Agent Smith** · April 28th, 2008, 11:18 PM

I would definitely talk to your wife about allowing at least a handgun back in the home, but maybe invest in some sort of gun safe to lock it up when not in use so the kids would not have access to it.

If that doesn't fly, then I'd say the best bet would be a good OC spray.

**NineseveN** · April 28th, 2008, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Keith4001r

It's bad enough that these... fill in the blank... think they own the sidewalk, and are brave enough for 3 of them to curse at a man with 2 small kids in tow. I'd rethink your home's handgun ban and re apply for your LTCF.

If firearms are definately out I'd investigate the martial arts, particularly Krav Maga. It teaches empty hand defense as well as disarming singular or multiple assailants. The learning curve is steep, ie, you'll be able to put up a decent defense in a short amount of training time. Just Google Krav Maga and surf away.

Best of luck to you.

While I love Krav Maga, keep in mind the ages of his children. Krav still needs contact distance to be used, in the 3 seconds it takes to make an effective move against one attacker, what if 1 or both of the others attack/harm/grab a child? It's the same problem I have with the baton and other contact weapons/methods. Protecting those that cannot fight or move effectively calls for a projectile defense...if it can't be a bullet, OC spray is the next best thing in my opinion.

**BenningBoy** · April 29th, 2008, 01:43 AM

I was raised around guns, encouraged at a young age to go to the range with my father, and drilled on firearm safety constantly. To me, they were no different than anything else in the house, neither mysterious nor forbidden. I had more fear of the toaster than the guns, and since they were available to me, no desire to engage in any sort of mischief with them. I have extensive martial arts training, and 3 on 1 is not something I'd be comfortable or confident with. I view an LTCF as the worlds best insurance, especially for my family.