.410 as a home defense shotgun

[reverserboy]

In most home defense scenarios we're not necessarily trying to kill the intruder. Yes I know that dead men tell no tales and they don't sue you, but the main concern is the safety of yourself and your family. Changing the attacker's channel is the priority. Getting holes poked in you will usually (not always) change your channel. Like P-11 said "people don't like to bleed". You must be able to stop the attack and then retreat (that still is our duty in PA)

A person has to retreat in their home in PA?? Really?? When did the law change??

The tissue damage and pain at close range is more lethal than a 44 magnum and remember aim for the face even a heavy meth user will succumb and you still have 4 rounds left.

A .410ga out of a 3" barrel is more lethal than a .44mag....yeah..OK.
With my .44mag I don't need face shots...even on a drug addicted attacker......really. How many people carry a Judge for protection against bears or large cats?? You can't compare a .410 anything to a .44mag.

Oh yes! there are no ballistics to trace.

True...unless a slug was used.

[knight0334]

I've said it before, those Taurus Judges are novelty guns. A joke in fact..

45/410 handguns(singleshot, doublebarrel, and revolver) have been around for many years. Not until now has the 45/410 combination gotten so much attention. If it were a worthy means for defense, it would have been getting the attention long ago.

No 410 shotshell is anywhere comparable to a 44mag. .410" vs. .429" and, a 1/2oz .410 load out of a 28in barrel is about 1400fps. That same shotshell load out of a 3in barrel is much less. Now compare that to a 1/2oz slug from a 44mag is doing 1400fps from a 4-6" barrel.

Now, 3-5 .36cal balls of about 70-85gr a piece with little mass will have little energy per ball, and will lose their energy very quick due to the lack of mass. Try to stop a single 240gr slug.


As for the changing their channel and people dont like to bleed - not all people are like that. Some like me, who once they see their own blood or do get hit/hurt - no longer feel pain and become quite determined, violently, to make sure they are the winner/whatever. Just in another thread posted at this site a boxer took on a cop, was shot, and kept beating the cop.

[sleeper78]

[QUOTE=reverserboy;771059]A person has to retreat in their home in PA?? Really?? When did the law change??


Pa has no castle doctrine. We have a duty to retreat in this state. This means that we are not legally allowed to stand our ground and fight it out with an intruder. We are only allowed to fight back enough to enable us to retreat to safety.

Now IANAL so if I am wrong on my understanding I welcome any lawyer to set me straight so we are all on the same page.

[reverserboy]

Pa has no castle doctrine. We have a duty to retreat in this state.

There is no duty to retreat in ones home/place of abode so long as the defender did not provoke the confrontation.

Outside of the home you would be correct. One must retreat if it can be done safely. A person is not required to increase the danger to themself in order to retreat.

Copied from title 18 505:

(ii) the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

(A) the actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and

I've said it before, those Taurus Judges are novelty guns. A joke in fact..

I would tend to agree.

[knight0334]

PA does have Castle Doctrine as coded law and practices it under common law. You have no duty to retreat in your place of abode or work, unless the other person has a lawful right to be there or you were the initial aggressor. Title 18, Chapter 5, Subsection 505, 506, 507, & 508. (click each subsection)

What we dont have is Stand Your Ground provisions for places other than your home and work, or civil immunities.

[falcn]

I guess this guy never knew about Short stocking his weapon. No need to go shorter, If one knows how to short stock...Cleared many a room with an M-16A2 with 20in barrel, Rounded many a corner as well. Just by short stocking. Just my .02 cents.

Semper Fi,

I'm new to all this, what is short stocking?

[sleeper78]

There is no duty to retreat in ones home/place of abode so long as the defender did not provoke the confrontation.

Outside of the home you would be correct. One must retreat if it can be done safely. A person is not required to increase the danger to themself in order to retreat.

Copied from title 18 505:

Thank you for clarifying

[knight0334]

Dear knight, The taurus may be a joke to you but I don't think you would want to be on the receiving end. You have made some incorrect statements but I don't want to get into it. A few years ago I was shot 3 times with a 38 special using hollow points. One went in my chest, deflected off my heart went down through my left lung and lodged next to my spine. The second went into my groin , swirled about and exited through my left hip the third went through my right arm. I escaped and drove myself to the hospital where I was pronounced D.O.A. These two robbers were no more than six feet away from me and the only thing that would have deterred them would have been a bullet between the eyes or a judge in the face. Wyatt Earp would have been hard put to hit them both between the eyes before they discharged their weapons. One shot of # 4 buck in the face would have inflicted so much pain they would have been happy to shoot themselves. I am over twice your age and spent ten years as a rent collector in the black ghettos of Houston. and one border war in Central America. If I had ever been in the military I could have qualified for over a dozen purple hearts for all the severe wounds I have received. You go ahead and read your books and BS with your buddies, I am going to do what I know will work.

I do apologize if you took offense. However I am quite familiar with the 45/410 handguns and their ballistics. I've owned a BFR in 45/410(sold), and (2) FMJ SxS derringers(were stolen Nov '05 from me). I've tried everything from slugs to handloaded shot, including buckshot of all sizes in those guns. Only the 000 buck which created the velocity to break ribs of a pig, and go in far enough to penetrate some organs. Although the slugs did fair better. Sure, a face shot will do all sorts of nasty things, however to assume you'll be able to hit there or anywhere critical during such situations is a flawed foresight.

I too have lived in some bad places. I grew up on the streets of Tampa, not the pretty places, but rather places like the east side of Ybor City, Highland Pines, and Grant Park - which have been referred to as Florida's "South Central LA" a few times over the years. As for being shot, if you dont mind, you can extract the rest of this 38 slug out of my left calf if you like.

[WhiteShadow]

Just get a 12 gauge.

[offshorebear]

410 slugs look like they would work fine for home defense. Buck in 410 doesn't make much sense to me. From looking at the squirrels I shoot I wouldn't use bird shot for anything other than squirrels. My .410 is a 3 shot bolt gun and I have better choices, so I don't use it for defense.

I don't trust pain to deter an invader. I agree if they are rational it would work, but I'm more worried about a crazy, drugged out, junkie who doesn't feel pain. For whatever comes to do me harm I am confident in the .45 and 5.56 to do their part.


If 410 is all you have, its better than nothing.