OC and traffic stops

[FJW]

I know there is some overlap, but generally I think OC and CC are two different schools of thought. Lately over in the CC part of the forum people have been telling some ugly stories of being pulled over for minor violations and then being interrogated, searched and even detained for admitting to having a firearm in the vehicle, even with a permit. I'm just wondering if people who OC mostly also report similar occurences. I especially wonder if any OC'ers have actually been followed by police upon being seen getting in their vehicles with weapons visible.

I just got my LTCF a few weeks ago and I'm still feeling my way around. I'm not too thrilled with what I've read about the results of some traffic stops when someone admitted to carrying upon being asked by the officer. I personally am strictly CC for now, although I would think very different if I was camping or attending some firearm-related event. Then I'd consider OC. Within the CC community there are people who strongly believe you should NEVER admit to carrying a firearm during a traffic stop, and those who say you should, but only if asked. Then a minority who believes you should offer both your LTCF card with your license along with a full admission of what you are carrying, with no prompting from the officer.

I'm curious what are the opinions and experiences regarding this within the OC community, as opposed to CC.

[yeager484]

I know there is some overlap, but generally I think OC and CC are two different schools of thought. Lately over in the CC part of the forum people have been telling some ugly stories of being pulled over for minor violations and then being interrogated, searched and even detained for admitting to having a firearm in the vehicle, even with a permit. I'm just wondering if people who OC mostly also report similar occurences. I especially wonder if any OC'ers have actually been followed by police upon being seen getting in their vehicles with weapons visible. The only cop interaction I've had, I was asked about open carrying by a local LEO as I was about to enter my vehicle. He did most of the talking and was very supportive of OC. Didn't ask me for ID or my ltcf and I entered my vehicle when we we're done talking while he was just a few feet away.

I just got my LTCF a few weeks ago and I'm still feeling my way around. I'm not too thrilled with what I've read about the results of some traffic stops when someone admitted to carrying upon being asked by the officer. I personally am strictly CC for now, although I would think very different if I was camping or attending some firearm-related event. Then I'd consider OC. Within the CC community there are people who strongly believe you should NEVER admit to carrying a firearm during a traffic stop, and those who say you should, but only of asked. Then a minority who believes you should offer both your LTCF card with your license along with a full admission of what you are carrying, with no prompting from the officer.

I'm curious what are the opinions and experiences regarding this within the OC community, as opposed to CC. "Nothing illegal".

Mine in bold.

[Anthony1911]

My thoughts, if your firearm is not easily visible, don't say you are carrying. If asked, answer truthfully. Nothing illegal is fine, in response to "Do you have any weapons or contraband yadda yadda etc." But if the cop asks specifically in regards to you carrying, answer truthfully. If it never comes up, and you are asked to step out for whatever reason and you are OCing, let the officer know. Having some experience on the police side (military police), it can be very surprising and often raise tension if the officer suddenly sees a weapon.

[FJW]

Nice simple answer, Yeager. Thanks. Mind if I ask for some detail about your conversation with the LEO? What would he ask or tell you if the act is not illegal? Sounds "friendly" enough, but what would he have to say if it was an official inquiry? Or was it an official inquiry disguised as "personal curiosity"?

Anthony, I usually remove my weapon - still in the holster - when I get into my car. Sometimes it goes on the passenger seat hidden under a jacket or hat. Usually it just goes under the seat. The holster is a clip-on so removing it is fast, easy and smoothe and takes about 5 seconds. If my holstered gun is on the seat underneath something as it occasionally is, it's as easy as pie to slip it under the seat without moving around much or leaning more than a tiny bit. This might not be true of all cars, but it's true of the one I have, and if I had a different car then I'd just take some private time to modify my strategy.

Anyway, it's good to hear your experience and your opinions. I think your experience and your attitudes are probably a little different than what I see in the CC threads, but by putting it all together I get a better glimpse of the Big Picture. Some of the CC people seem to be very openly defiant toward the law. I'm not thrilled about having police around either. I don't like their presence at all. It's an annoyance and an imposition and makes me feel like I have to be preoccupied with everything I do and how I appear to avoid prejudiced perception from them. That's part of why I CC. The other part is because...even though I'm 190lbs and 6ft tall, I'm just a human not a superhero, and if I was distracted or unaware it's not too unrealistic to say that I could feasibly have my gun grabbed by someone who is calculating, especially if they had an accomplice. It's not impossible, no matter how big you are. There are some real desperate nuts out there who like to flirt with danger, and do crazy things just because they have nothing better to do. You can't watch everyone all of the time. You can't see everything coming. If I kicked a 350lb linebacker in his gonads or poke him in the eye without warning, I actually might be able to knock him off his feet and really f&%k him up. Or...maybe just take his OC gun if he was reeling and rolling in pain and trying get his bearings...especially if I planned it that way. I just think in this urban environment CC is safer and more practical. But I still think OC offers an interesting alternative which also has some pros as well as cons, and the very existence of it adds important data to the question of carrying a weapon.

[ungawa]

Cop: "Good afternoon, license and registration, please."

Me: "Hi, sure, here you go!"

Cop: "Where are you headed?"

Me: "Phil says he has to be with me for me to answer questions. He is my lawyer."

Fork A.........

Cop: "I'm not investigating you."

Me: Silent.

Cop: "Here is your warning/citation, please be more careful."

Fork B........

Cop: "Step out of the car, please."

Me: "I have license to carry."

Cop: "You have a gun permit? Are you carrying?"

Me: "Yes."

[markshere2]

Cop: "Good afternoon, license and registration, please."

Me: "Hi, sure, here you go!"

Cop: "Where are you headed?"

Me: "Phil says he has to be with me for me to answer questions. He is my lawyer."

Fork A.........

Cop: "I'm not investigating you."

Me: Silent.

Cop: "Here is your warning/citation, please be more careful."

Fork B........

Cop: "Step out of the car, please."

Me: "I have license to carry."

Cop: "You have a gun permit? Are you carrying?"

Me: "Yes."

Excellent training scenario!

My standard input on the topic:
Before you get pulled over: set your car up this way EVERY DAY
Weapon concealed as you see fit and is legal. IWB appendix carry for me.

Registration and proof of insurance someplace NOT co-located with weapon. I keep mine clipped to the visor

Driver license NOT co-located with weapon.
My wallet is no longer in a rear pocket. It's usually in a front pocket or shirt pocket or on the dash.


If you are pulled over, do the smart stuff. Slow down, turn signal on.
Pick a safe place for officer friendly to get out of his car and approach you.
Put it in park and kill the engine; he's looking for the backup lights to flash as you pass thru Reverse
Window down enough so you can converse
Flashers on
Interior light on
DO NOT rummage around looking for papers.
Hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel as he approaches

Do be polite.
Don't be a dick.
Don't volunteer information he doesn't need to know
Don't bend over for any violations of your 4th or 5th amendment rights.

Acceptable answers are "There's nothing illegal in my car."

"Respectfully, I'll stand on my 4th amendment rights, so no, you do not have my permission to search my car."

"My lawyer recommends I never talk to the police without him being present. I spent money for that advice, so I guess I will use it."

"Am I under arrest?"

"Am I free to go?"

Or you can do whatever he instructs you to do.

[yeager484]

Nice simple answer, Yeager. Thanks. Mind if I ask for some detail about your conversation with the LEO? What would he ask or tell you if the act is not illegal? Sounds "friendly" enough, but what would he have to say if it was an official inquiry?

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...ml#post2246204

Conversion is transcribed in my first post of my oc log

[Carnes]

Concealed means concealed, and open means open. If I were OC and had to suffer through a traffic stop, I suspect I would be inclined to be 'open' about it.

[felly smarts]

I have never been approached by anyone OC or CC (though I have only OC a few times). I don't know how I would act if a cop were to pull me over. I guess it would greatly depend on his attitude when he approaches me. If he's cool, I'm cool. But if he's pounding his chest and wants to piss on my boots, then I will recite my rights as a law abiding citizen. So I guess that thing is KNOW your rights and be as polite as possible about them, and lawyer up if it goes there.

I think a lot of people here like to be dicks just because they know they can or feel like they can. As cops can as well. And you never know what happened the last time a cop came in contact with a person with a gun. That incident could have happened the night before.

I coach football with cops from Baltimore, York and Regional, and they are all 2a supporters. Most are ex military so they love talking guns. I get tips from them all the time just from general conversation and the stories they tell.

[vavulaka]

Some of the CC people seem to be very openly defiant toward the law.

Okay, I gotta call you out here.
The "CC people" you're referring to never suggested you break the law. No one on that thread even remotely suggested that you break the law!
What people suggested was this: If asked "Do you have any weapons in your vehicle" to simply say "No" even if you have weapons. They they elaborated saying that lying to local officer is not a crime, where lying to a federal officer is a crime.