GF Denied LTCF

[flyingjunkie]

So GF and I recently went to the Beaver Courthouse to apply for her LTCF. After about a week or so of waiting, we just got a certified letter in the mail with her denial. The letter came with 2 pages: one of them states

Your application for a permit to carry a firearm is denied. See appropriate checked reason(s).

1. Unreachable reference.

2. Underage.

3. No Employer Authorization.

4. County Treasurer Issues Hunting and Fishing Licenses.

5. Incomplete Application.
You may complete and return the application back to the Sheriff's Office
for processing

6. Falsification of Application.

7. Dishonorable Discharge.

8. Institutionalized.

9. Drug or Alcohol Abuse.

10. Non-resident.

11. X Other Reasons: See attached letter

12. PICS - You may have been denied by the Pennsylvania Instant Check System. You may challenge the decision by filling out the appropriate form and returning it to the Pennsylvania State Police.

Sincerely,
George J. David

The attached letter reads:

Dear Applicant:

You have recently applied for a License to Carry a Firearm through this office. This letter is to inform you that the application has been denied in accordance with 18 Pa. C.S.A. 6109(e)(1)(i), which states that a license shall not be issued to any individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner contrary to public safety.

At this juncture, the only recourse available would be to contact the Clerk of Courts in the county where the offense took place, and inquire if the case is eligible to be expunged. Once the case is expunged, you may reapply through this office. Otherwise, the decision is final.

George J. David
Sheriff of Beaver County

My concerns are these:

1) my GFs only offense was a DUI, her first and only charge ever brought against her, and that was about a year ago. She has since completed all the requirements including paying off her fines and attending all required classes. That said, the letter never states what offense they are referring to or where the charge came from that they are referencing, it just says "call the county clerk where your offense took place".

2) If it were the DUI that they are using, shouldn't that have fallen under the category listed on page one of the letter of "Drug and Alcohol abuse"?

3) How do you refute being of "bad character" with someone that is charged with making terroristic threats against people and why is he still making these decisions?

4) What are our options at this point and how do we pursue them?

Thanks a lot in advance for your advice everyone!

[anonymouse]

This might be relevant:

http://blog.princelaw.com/2013/04/28...vocation-case/

[Anthony1911]

If she was convincted of a DUI, which is a felony offense, she is a convicted felon, and thus prohibited from obtaining s firearm or LTCF.

[twency]

If she was convincted of a DUI, which is a felony offense, she is a convicted felon, and thus prohibited from obtaining s firearm or LTCF.

You might want to check your facts on that.

The Pennsylvania DUI Court Process - Felony versus misdemeanor DUI

[ViperGTS19801]

You might want to check your facts on that.

The Pennsylvania DUI Court Process - Felony versus misdemeanor DUI

Perhaps the comma he used was not supposed to be there.

[twency]

Perhaps the comma he used was not supposed to be there.

Hmm, could be.

[Armor Snail]

Hmm.
Some of that list of potential denial reasons is unsettling to me.

1. Hope they aren't divulging info as to why the reference is being contacted.

3. See above

5. Hope they are not "requiring" SS# as it is optional.


Hope this gets settled for her and she acquires her LTCF. IIRC it is having 3 misdemeanor grade DUI in less than 5 years to be prohibiting.

Her first DUI and first anything correct? She did not get ARD? If so the expungement is required by law to be ordered by the judge upon sucessful completion of the program.

[Manxdriver]

I don't mean to offend anyone here, BUT, in my personal opinion, if you have a DUI, your character, your maturity, and your general responsibility is such that I wouldn't issue you a LTCF. Or a Driver's license for that matter.

[crashland]

While your GF's situation sucks, isn't getting behind the wheel while intoxicated an indication of a potential character issue? If somebody mixes alcohol and driving, isn't it reasonable to be concerned about such a person mixing alcohol and guns? Under current laws with the subjective "character" BS, her denial doesn't seem unreasonable.

I believe it is unreasonable for our county sheriffs to be able to use such excuses to deny people their rights and the law should be changed such that if you can own it, you can carry it, without any of this license crap.

[flyingjunkie]

Hmm.
Some of that list of potential denial reasons is unsettling to me.

1. Hope they aren't divulging info as to why the reference is being contacted.

3. See above

5. Hope they are not "requiring" SS# as it is optional.


Hope this gets settled for her and she acquires her LTCF. IIRC it is having 3 misdemeanor grade DUI in less than 5 years to be prohibiting.

Her first DUI and first anything correct? She did not get ARD? If so the expungement is required by law to be ordered by the judge upon sucessful completion of the program.

This is her first DUI and first anything. She completed the ARD program and paid off all her fines.

On a side note, we took a ride to the sheriff's office to ask for some clarification. Captiain J.P. something (I can't remember his last name right now), was extremely short with us, almost as if to say "how dare you peons question our decision. He did inform us that their decision was based on the fact that "she has a criminal offense on her record". I told him that the only thing on her record that he was actually holding in his hand was her DUI and with that, you can only prohibit a "habitual drunkard". He said their decision has nothing to do with a DUI, but the criminal charges for it and we would have to have it expunged. After an expungement, she would be granted her LTCF. I'm considering calling an attorney because he refused to give us copies or even show us the docket sheets and when we told him that the law says they have to provide us, in writing, the actual reason for denial, his response was "I just told you." now I understand what Mr McKee is going thru and may consider going the same route if this doesn't get rectified soon.

As far as Item 3 is concerned, I think that only applies if you put "For employment" as your reason for your LTCF. Legal? Not sure, but I do remember seeing that as an option on the application.