Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Ok, so a prototype of a fully 3D printed gun has been tested that will fire a couple of rounds before the barrel blows up, Chuck Schumer is in hysterics about terrorists producing guns in garages, etc... We've heard all that. However, I wonder what implications this has for the future of firearms in America beyond issues of who is able to own firearms, namely, who will be producing them. There are all kinds of predictions out there about the future ubiquity of 3D printing. Some commentators say that high quality 3D printers will one day be as accessible as PCs. Let's take Defense Distributed's current project of producing a high quality durable AR-15 lower receiver from plastic. Right now I think they're making lowers that will take about 80 rounds worth of .223 before they break. Impressive start, but considering the benchmark here is to manufacture a weapon that can literally fire tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition without a failure, they still have miles to go. I've read up on upcoming metal forming technologies that will theoretically be able to 3D print using any metal one desires, but many of those technologies are still being developed. Even once they are developed, it's going to then take some time for the cost to come down to a level that's accessible to the public.

    However, let's say for a moment that the technology is here-you can buy a 3D printer for $1000 that will produce high quality aluminum alloy or steel parts and you can make AR-15 lowers til the cows come home, and you can invite your friends over to do the same (since you can only produce weapons for your own personal use with out a manufacturer's license from the ATF) and every weekend you have 2A supporters coming over to load up a CAD program, put in some powdered aluminum, and press the button. There already is a model for this with a company called Ares Armor, which manufactures 80% finished AR-15 lowers which you, the owner then finish by putting it into a CNC mill yourself, loading the CAD program, and pushing the button. Out comes a finished firearm for your own personal use. However, not everyone has access to a CNC mill, and they are prohibitively expensive, so that model is tough to scale up. If 3D printing comes down in price like some people say it will, it has the potential to turn the firearms industry (and many other industries) on it's head.

    Right now, 2A supporters are excited about the prospect of being able to produce their own firearms, which is understandable, but I wonder what the NRA's position on this is? The NRA is of course a membership funded organization dedicated to the preservation of the 2nd Amendment in part, but they are also a trade organization also funded in part by firearms dealers and manufacturers. What are manufacturers going to do if 3D printing of firearms starts to encroach upon their business? This could be said about a lot of industries, but few industries are also involved in such a complex web of individual rights which are now colliding with a lack of intellectual property rights. That is the other interesting part about Cody Wilson, Founder and President of Defense Distributed. The headlines simply say "University of Texas Law Student Produces 3D Printed Firearm." To most folks on the face of it, Wilson, at first glance probably appears to be a 2A/gun enthusiast and staunch libertarian/conservative who has mastered 3D printing. Not exactly. If you read/watch interviews with him, his politics are much more complicated. Wilson is dedicated to the idea of open source, basically, that everyone should have access to anything from how to 3D print a gun, to how to produce cancer drugs, to how to build an MRI machine. He doesn't seem to believe in copyrights or patents and rails against the power of corporations and big business just as much as big government. Here is an excerpt from an interview (in it's entirety here: http://blog.makezine.com/2013/02/07/...h-cody-wilson/ )

    Well, see I don’t really accept the right/left distinction, but yeah. I came to the Liberty Movement through post-Marxist thought and French social theory, but though I share a lot with the right-leaning individuals, the anarchists, I consider myself more of a leftist, but only in the kind of discouraged sense of that word.
    Wilson is an admirer of Julian Assange (Wikileaks founder) and Kim Dotcom (German internet mogul and hacktivist)-he seems like he'd be just as at home with the Occupy Wall Street Crowd as he would a group of gun rights advocates. His philosophy seems to approach anarchy in a way-basically, he believes in the power of the individual and of leaderless movements. Any kind of concentration of power is anathema. Is this something that rank and file 2A supporters (of which I count myself) can get behind? I honestly don't know, but I guess time will tell.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Until somebody invents printable ammo, printable guns are interesting but not a paradigm shift.
    The first one to use the word "sheeple" automatically loses the argument.

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Demko View Post
    Until somebody invents printable ammo, printable guns are interesting but not a paradigm shift.
    I see your point, but being able to manufacture high quality weapons (ie: not simple "zip guns") at home with relative ease, I would argue, is a paradigm shift if it goes large scale. I actually live in NJ, but enjoy the discussion over here (and will probably move to PA someday)-3D printable guns would be an interesting test case there because in NJ you need a valid Firearms Purchaser ID card to purchase firearms, but not to possess them. I'd be interested to hear what the courts would have to say about whether purchasing and producing for personal use are the same thing under the law for example.

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Quote Originally Posted by IHDiesel73L View Post
    but being able to manufacture high quality weapons (ie: not simple "zip guns") at home with relative ease, I would argue, is a paradigm shift if it goes large scale.
    That would be a paradigm shift, but we aren't there, yet. That would require consumer-level 3-D printers capable of much more than what today's models can do. There also needs to be considerably more work done on the designs of the printable guns themselves. The Liberator is important symbolically, but isn't a gun I'd bother making if I did have a 3-D printer.
    The first one to use the word "sheeple" automatically loses the argument.

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    I think my steel Colt 45 is going to last the rest of my life, thank you.

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    you dont need a cnc to complete an 80% ar5 reciever, and there are alot more than "zip guns" comming out of peoples houses. and for your theoritical $1000 dollars you could buy a used mill and lathe and make your own guns out of high quality material NOW

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Well, have home printers made books obsolete? Just because this technology allows someone to make their own lower easily doesn't mean that most gun owners *want* to. The only people who would be interested in printing their own lower are the same people who are interested in building their own AR. That's a fairly small segment of the AR owning population.

    Also, I'm pretty sure that they've printed a lower that's withstood at least 600 rounds so far. Given the low material/time investment, I could see printing a lower that will only last for 1500 rounds, and replacing it every 1000 or so.

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    you dont need a cnc to complete an 80% ar5 reciever, and there are alot more than "zip guns" comming out of peoples houses. and for your theoritical $1000 dollars you could buy a used mill and lathe and make your own guns out of high quality material NOW
    There is a significant level of skill involved in using a mill and lathe to make guns. Printable guns remove that barrier.
    The first one to use the word "sheeple" automatically loses the argument.

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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    and it will require significant skill to write tour own programs to make new things with your printer. do you realy expect the download programs to stay "free" once they have the bugs worked out? will you be happy to only "print" what someone else makes available? By the time everything is worked out and accessible with these printers you could have taken some night classes on machining and been on your way.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 3D Printing of firearms-beyond the hysteria

    Quote Originally Posted by USMC3531 View Post
    and it will require significant skill to write tour own programs to make new things with your printer. do you realy expect the download programs to stay "free" once they have the bugs worked out? will you be happy to only "print" what someone else makes available? By the time everything is worked out and accessible with these printers you could have taken some night classes on machining and been on your way.
    Ease of use, it's a lot simpler to download a program and let the computer handle the manufacture. JMO.
    Sanity, yours if you can keep it.....

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