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April 28th, 2008, 01:03 PM #21
re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
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April 28th, 2008, 01:09 PM #22Grand Member
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re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
there is a problem with these arguments.
namely, the PA UFA preemption statute specifically states that no municipality or county may *in any manner* regulate the possession of firearms.
the township/county/etc. does not have the same power to regulate firearms on it's "public invite" land as a regular private property owner because the preemption clause specifically addresses municipalities and counties and not any other land owners.
the fact that the land is owned by the township and is "public invite" is irrelevant. the preemption statute does not contain any language that limits it to only streets, sidewalks, etc. or any other specific type of public or private land.
it also does not limit itself to covering just ordinances. it says "regulate" and it says "in any manner".
a park regulation is, by defintion, regulation...and, thus, covered by the "regulate" phraseology. further, the "in any manner" clause also clearly means it is not limited to just preventing ordinances regardng carrying in general. regulating the possession of firearms in parks is "regulating" and falls under "in any manner".
also, regarding local smoking bans...i know of at least two (erie and allegheny county) that were shot down by the courts because there is a preemption clause in the state clean air act (and that preemption clause is more vague and weaker than the one in the PA UFA to boot).
are there any local smoking bans in force in PA?
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April 28th, 2008, 01:13 PM #23
re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
streets are different rules and regulations from parks because streets are means of transportation from one property (block of land) to another block of land. public parks are land owned by a township. it's local govenrnment property and they can restrict things on their own land... yes it is designated for public use, but it has hours restrictions when the public is not invited in, firearm or not. I wouldn't like the government telling me what to do with my land, so they can have the parks if they really want to. they restrict smoking in certain areas of their parks even though has a pa preemption for them laws too... it's about property rights. you can not be arrested or prosecuted for carrying a firearm in a park, but the park ranger does have a right to kick you out or ask you to leave your firearm in your vehicle. if it were public use all the time, then there would be no park hours, just as there are no street hours (times when you can and can not use a street). Do you think we should be able to go into county parks whenever we desire? it's the same deal as smoking... If i decided to ignorantly light up a cigarette in a courthouse, I would be asked to leave, but can not be arrested for it... I might get a fine for being a public nuisance, but no criminal arrest.
Last edited by ccphilly1984; April 28th, 2008 at 01:15 PM.
my goal: to get every good person in the philly region responsibly armed.
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April 28th, 2008, 01:15 PM #24Grand Member
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re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
there is no state preemption clause with regard to park hours.
if there were, counties/townships could not set their own park hours either.
but there is not.
however, there is a (very strong and crystal clear) state preemption clause regarding the regulating of possession (not just transportation) of firearms.
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April 28th, 2008, 01:17 PM #25
re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
my goal: to get every good person in the philly region responsibly armed.
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April 28th, 2008, 01:19 PM #26Grand Member
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re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
my guess is that those restrictions actually come from the state clean air act.
if they don't and the county/township has passed its own regulations regarding smoking, someone might win in court if they sued to make them stop enforcing those bans.
the preemption clause in the clean air act is not nearly as clear cut as the PA UFA preemption clause, though.
it's about property rights.
namely, they may not *in any manner* regulate the possession of firearms.
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April 28th, 2008, 01:22 PM #27Grand Member
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re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
the *state* regulates smoking in buildings...and on other public property.
If you want to carry in your park, then take it to the pa supreme court... I don't even bother to carry unless i'm going to "the hood"
of course, that isn't likely to happen as i CC and allegheny county doesn't have a no guns in our parks rule anyway (at least not if you have an LTCF).
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April 28th, 2008, 01:24 PM #28
re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
No need to go to the SC since possession is clearly, and fully, preempted in SS6120.
There are no exceptions. None.
§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and
ammunition.
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may
in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession,
transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition
components when carried or transported for purposes
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May 14th, 2008, 01:44 PM #29
re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
Amity Township
Ordinance 226, "Skateboard Park", a restatement of the township's park rules and regulations
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced. Pre-UFA ordinance which was never repealed.
Enacted on: 09/05/2006
Relevant text from the ordinance follows. Emphasis added by me:
Section 1, Part 1, Section 121: Projectiles
The possession or use of firearms, paintball equipment, slingshots, pellet guns, projectiles of any nature or any instrument which fires or discharges any projectile is hereby prohibited.
Amity Township
Ordinance 228, "Monocacy Hill Firearms"
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced.
Enacted on: 10/03/2006
Relevant text from the ordinance follows. Emphasis added by me:
Section 1: Section 122, entitled "Hunting", of Part 1, entitled "Parks and Recreation Areas", of Chapter XX, entitled "Parks and Recreation Areas", of the "Township of Amity Code of Ordinances", is hereby amended and restated in its entirety as follows:
Section 122, Hunting: Hunting on park grounds is allowed only on Monocacy Hill, and only in compliance with the regulations and stipulations as set forth in the statutes commonly known as the Game Laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Part 3, entitled "Discharge of Firearms" of Chapter XIV, entitled "Health and Safety", of the Township of Amity Code of Ordinances (commonly known as the Township's Gun Ordinance), and only a lawful distance from area picnic grounds, publicly occupied parks, and houses. Additionally, the following regulations shall apply:
(a) All firearms are prohibited on Monocacy Hill with the exception of the following:
(1) Shotguns, black powder muzzle loaders, bows and arrows and long, recurve and compound bows.
...Last edited by ChamberedRound; May 16th, 2010 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Edited to remove Ordinance #233
"Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
-Charlton Heston
"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
-James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
-John Quincy Adams
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
-Thomas Jefferson
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May 30th, 2008, 05:16 PM #30Active Member
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Lancaster County,
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re: [CLOSED]Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)[CLOSED]
Millersville Borough (Lancaster county)
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced.
Enacted: 11/27/2001
http://www.millersvilleborough.org/m...Ordinances.pdf
§103. PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
No person in attendance at park shall:
S. Hunt for, capture or kill, or attempt to capture or kill, or aid or assist in the capturing or killing of, in any manner, any wild bird or wild animal of any description, either game or otherwise, and to that end, it is unlawful for any person to carry onto or possess in any park, a hunting knife or a shotgun or rifle or pistol or firearm of any make or kind.Last edited by gnbrotz; July 27th, 2008 at 07:11 PM. Reason: standardize format
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