Philadelphia LTCF

**bob2055** · April 29th, 2013, 08:20 PM

Since Krazy Kane has ended my avoidance of applying for a LTCF in Philadelphia (I have a CCP from Virginia), I have question. Has anyone ever tried to apply in Philadelphia without having your references fill out the two reference forms that Philadelphia REQUIRES. These forms are clearly against state law. As Title 18 Section 6109 (c) states in part:

(c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.

**RebelRaider5** · April 29th, 2013, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by bob2055

Since Krazy Kane has ended my avoidance of applying for a LTCF in Philadelphia (I have a CCP from Virginia), I have question. Has anyone ever tried to apply in Philadelphia without having your references fill out the two reference forms that Philadelphia REQUIRES. These forms are clearly against state law. As Title 18 Section 6109 (c) states in part:

(c) Form of application and content.--The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.

Yup, when I was dancing around getting my LTCF threw phila not to long ago I had a guy answer he didn't have his references fill out the form. They gave him some BS but they took the form. They did call both references tough. If you fill out the from they more then likely won't call your references.

Here's my thread [a few months old]:http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...cf-page-2.html

This what a guy had to say about his experience:

Greeting all, I have been lurking on this website for quite a while and this is my first post. I was in the same boat with regard to references forms when I applied for my LTCF in Philly. However if you note #4 of the instructions sheet that they provide, the reference form "Enclosed are two references information sheets that your references may use for their convenience." The key was the word may for me and the fact that the state law says that it must be a uniform one page application. So I filled out all that was required on the one page application, brought all else that was required and went to the office.

I was first seen by a lady who asked all the usual BS questions that they ask. She then looked over the paper work and told me that the reference forms need to be filled out. I politely reminded her that the state law did not require me to do that and moreover their own instructions state that I MAY but dont have to use them for "convenience" of my references. (I actually had to point out the exact wording on #4 of the instruction sheet cause she was not aware of that!!) She then rather annoyed went to the back and another gentleman came back to talk to me. In essence he stated that I was technically right but I was really reading into the law and their own instructions. He stated that they try to hold them selves to higher standard then the rest of the state. I did say that they must follow they state law and he replied that since they are the issuing authority they believe that they can require additional things. I then told him that, well all I am doing is following the law and their own instructions (ie #4) and I think I know what the word "MAY" means. And that I choose not to use the reference forms for MY own convenience.

I thanked him for his time. He took my application and I got my LTCF in I think 40 days or so. But both of the references were called. Also one was from Bucks county and the other was from Long Island NY, so all that crap about them being from Philly is just that, crap. As long as they are not your relatives, you are good.

So in summary, F&$K'em, they still have to follow the law and then know it.

Sorry about this being so long.

**bob2055** · April 29th, 2013, 08:51 PM

I did see where it says "may" on the instruction form. In section 2 it states Application and 2 reference forms must be filled out or your application will not be accepted. I see what you are saying though. I will use that "may" line and I will also bring a copy of the law I stated above and see what happens. Thanks for your reply.

**RebelRaider5** · April 29th, 2013, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by bob2055

I did see where it says "may" on the instruction form. In section 2 it states Application and 2 reference forms must be filled out or your application will not be accepted. I see what you are saying though. I will use that "may" line and I will also bring a copy of the law I stated above and see what happens. Thanks for your reply.

Good luck and let us know how you turn out. A piece of advice get there are early as possible. They open at 9am. I know what your going threw tough. I didn't want to give philthy $20 for a "privilege". So I had my AZ & VA. I was curious, and eventually applied. Thankfully I applied before Sandy Hook. It was a mad house after words. They had so many people applying people were waiting in the lobby and sending up people one at a time. All in all it's not a bad of process as people make it out to be. The worst part was signing that piece of paper to get you LTC.

**ericnjttz** · April 29th, 2013, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by RebelRaider5

Good luck and let us know how you turn out. A piece of advice get there are early as possible. They open at 9am. I know what your going threw tough. I didn't want to give philthy $20 for a "privilege". So I had my AZ & VA. I was curious, and eventually applied. Thankfully I applied before Sandy Hook. It was a mad house after words. They had so many people applying people were waiting in the lobby and sending up people one at a time. All in all it's not a bad of process as people make it out to be. The worst part was signing that piece of paper to get you LTC.

I accidently kept the signed paper, and handed her the blank. She didn't catch the mistake, probably because she was on her phone the whole time.

**Sparks** · April 30th, 2013, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by ericnjttz

I accidently kept the signed paper, and handed her the blank. She didn't catch the mistake, probably because she was on her phone the whole time.

Now, I'd have a problem with that. That’s just plain rude.

Also they have signs all over the place saying “Please turn off cell phones”.

**sohryu76** · April 30th, 2013, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Sparks

Now, I'd have a problem with that. That’s just plain rude.

Also they have signs all over the place saying “Please turn off cell phones”.

now he didn't say her cell phone.

If she was on her business line non stop because people were calling in, then it's a bit different.

Let's not assume anything here. Even if it is a public servant.

**ericnjttz** · April 30th, 2013, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by sohryu76

now he didn't say her cell phone.

If she was on her business line non stop because people were calling in, then it's a bit different.

Let's not assume anything here. Even if it is a public servant.

It was her cellphone, using the headphones as a microphone. She was talking about how you can't trust someone selling a used car for $500, she's probably right.