Clinton, Obama Play Both Sides of Gun Issue

[rev214]

lots of muddled ideas and double-speak in the article below...

Clinton, Obama Play Both Sides of Gun Issue
By Susan Jones
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
April 17, 2008

(CNSNews.com) - Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois, still scrapping for the Democratic presidential nomination, tried to reconcile their gun-control records with their professed campaign-trail support for gun ownership on Wednesday night.

Both candidates bowed to the nation's hunting culture -- yet insisted that "common sense" should prevail. Both candidates said they support and respect an individual's right to own guns, but the positions they endorsed -- an "assault weapons" ban, expanded police access to federal gun-trace data, and keeping guns out of the "wrong hands" -- are straight out of the gun-control play book.

The Democrats' comments on guns came in response to questions posed at a debate in Philadelphia -- their first in six weeks -- which comes one week before the crucial Pennsylvania primary.

Moderator Charlie Gibson of ABC News brought up the mass murder at Virginia Tech, saying the one-year anniversary of the shooting attack "makes this an appropriate time to talk about guns."

Noting that both Clinton and Obama have been "strong advocates" for gun licensing and gun registration, Gibson asked Clinton why she's backed off those positions while campaigning in Pennsylvania.

Clinton mentioned the soaring murder rate in Philadelphia and said that as president, she would put more police officers on the street.

"I will also work to reinstate the assault weapons ban," she said, referring to restrictions on semi-automatic weapons imposed during her husband's administration. Clinton said the semi-automatic weapons ban "really was an aid to our police officers, who are now, once again...being outgunned on our streets by these military-style weapons."

Second Amendment supporters strongly opposed the so-called "assault weapons ban" for a number of reasons, as Cybercast News Service has previously reported. (See earlier story)

Clinton also wants to expand cities' access to gun trace data collected by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

She said 80 percent of the weapons used in "gun crimes" are "in the hands of that criminal, that gang member, unfortunately people who are sometimes, you know, mentally challenged, because it got there illegally. And under the Republicans, that information was kept from local law enforcement."

Second Amendment supporters say anti-gun groups want to use gun trace data in frivolous civil lawsuits intended to bankrupt the firearms industry. (Current law allows ATF gun-trace data to be used in specific criminal investigations, but it explicitly prevents cities from requesting blanket gun-trace data for the purpose of building a case against gun dealers.

"I respect the Second Amendment," Clinton said. "I respect the rights of lawful gun owners to own guns, to use their guns. But I also believe that most lawful gun owners, whom I have spoken with for many years across our country, also want to be sure that we keep those guns out of the wrong hands."

Clinton said as president, she would "try to bridge this divide, which I think has been polarizing and, frankly, doesn't reflect the common sense of the American people. So we will strike the right balance to protect the constitutional right but to give people the feeling and the reality that they will be protected from guns in the wrong hands."

The phrase "common sense" is often applied to gun control measures by people who do not support an individual's right to keep and bear arms.


Individual right doesn't bar restrictions

Obama, asked about the District of Columbia's gun ban -- which the U.S. Supreme Court is now considering -- said he hadn't followed details of the case.

"As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms," Obama said. "But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, and, you know, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it."

Obama mentioned "two realities" when it comes to guns: "There's the reality of gun ownership and the tradition of gun ownership that's passed on from generation to generation. You know, when you listen to people who have hunted, and they talk about the fact that they went hunting with their fathers or their mothers, then that is something that is deeply important to them and, culturally, they care about deeply.

"But you also have the reality of what's happening here in Philadelphia and what's happening in Chicago."

Pressed on whether he still favors gun registration -- and whether he favors a ban on handguns, as he indicted in a 1996 questionnaire -- Obama said it wasn't his handwriting on that questionnaire.

"I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns," Obama said.

"What I think we can provide is common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns.

We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets."

Obama said the nation has to "get beyond the politics of this issue and figure out what, in fact, is working."

He mentioned public school children being shot to death in Chicago: "And I think that most law-abiding gun owners all across America would recognize that it is perfectly appropriate for local communities and states and the federal government to try to figure out, how do we stop that kind of killing?"


'Sensible regulation'

Clinton hedged on whether she supports the D.C. gun ban: "I want to give local communities the opportunity to have some authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe," she said.

"What I support is sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms."

She said a total gun ban "with no exceptions under any circumstances" might be found to be unconstitutional -- "but I don't know the facts," she said.

"But I don't think that should blow open a hole that says that D.C. or Philadelphia or anybody else cannot come up with sensible regulations to protect their people and keep, you know, machine guns and assault weapons out of the hands of folks who shouldn't have them."

Asked if she still favors the licensing and registration of handguns, Clinton said, "What I favor is what works in New York. You know, we have a set of rules in New York City, and we have a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in New York City is certainly not going to work in Montana.

"So for the federal government to be having any kind of, you know, blanket rules that they're going to try to impose I think doesn't make sense."

[SteveXD]

During the debate last night they both starting st-st-stu-stuttering when the gun issues came up.... It was funny to watch them try and explain how they are "for" guns... Their only argument was about hunting and sportsmen... Nothing about the true reason that we have the 2nd...

[Whiterook]

They ought to read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_...%28pamphlet%29

[larrymeyer]

During the debate last night they both starting st-st-stu-stuttering when the gun issues came up.... It was funny to whach them try and explain how they are "for" guns... Their only argument was about hunting and sportsmen... Nothing about the true reason that we have the 2nd...

But did agree on support for Nutter's laws. In addition Hillary said the NY laws were the best in the country.

[jdlv4_0]

Here's a vid: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=4670054

Oh this is some bad news....

What I favor is what works in New York. You know, we have a set of rules in New York City, and we have a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state

Guess what, IT DOESN'T WORK IN NY!

Hey Hillary, what did the five fingers say to the face? SLAP!!!!

[er2006]

Gun control is not about controling guns It never has been. Gun control is only about controlling people and always has been. When the Antis talk about gun control they are telling you that you can't think for yourself. If you can control people then you have what the U.S.S.R. had a totalitarian state.

[NY Refugee]

NY gun laws suck, and Clinton did not even have anything to do with them.

As for NYC, their crime was as bad as Philly and DC until Guliani started enforcing the "excisting" laws and then crime went down go figure.

[Winghunter]

Gun Ban = Obama & American Hunters & Shooters Assoc.
http://conservativesuperiority.com/2...hooters-assoc/

April 18, 2008 · Print This Article

An unconscionable hoax is being played on the American public and due to the recent endorsement of American Hunters and Shooters Association for Barack Hussein Obama it’s time for all of us to know exactly what that game is;

Barack Hussein Obama sings his song and dance, ‘I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns but, I support the D.C. gun ban AND I believe it’s constitutional.’ Obama has also publicly offered that we ban all semi-auto firearms. If the situation weren’t so serious the appropriate response would be a belly-laugh knowing his future held a ticket to mental health observation for this schizophrenic drool rather than a nomination to the presidency. We can be sure that we hear his partial pandering due only to the resounding defeat Al Gore was handed by us not that long ago. Obviously then, the disloyal anti-rights nuts learned a valuable subversive lesson by that same humbling loss of the 2000 election. Pot smokin’, cocaine sniffin' Al ( Interesting the two men are so alike. ) was openly against our inalienable right to defend ourselves and publicly dismissive of our Second Amendment where history recorded our answer to him.

For those who may not know, the D.C gun ban not only demands we’re all completely defenseless against criminals while away from home but, it also dictates the way we store our guns leaves you and your family just as totally defenseless in your own home….so much for ‘Every man’s home is his castle’.

The glaring results of Real Time Police studies of actual crimes unquestionably proves the potential victim isn’t given the time to unlock, retrieve from a safe or even load much less assemble a firearm before the threat is on them. Therefore, the D.C. gun ban merely serves those poor souls who live there ( and in Chicago ) by giving them something to frantically attempt and fail at while their attackers decide what they want to do to them…and then do it.

The relatively new game being played on us by imposters is to mask themselves in establishing actual associations as defenders of reason by pretending to stand next to us while they whisper sweet nothings of gentle nonsense in our ears instead of trying to ram it down our throats as they’ve done for decades. They name themselves as we would but have kept their ignorant whimpering in abusing the terms of ”common sense” and “reasonable” which is certainly not new, however, these terms take on a more influential power coming from an alleged ally and not a known adversary…until now that is. Although we must acknowledge they’re capable of learning more devious tactics in their goal of our assistance in mass suicide, we must continue to offer they can chase their own freewill of insanity without our help and will not drag us to our own violent and early graves with them nor allow them to indirectly assist murderers and rapists to injure us and our families.

Enter the endorsement of Obama by the American Hunter and Shooting Association, formed in August of 2005, led by Ray Schoenke, President. If his keeping a public “daily diary” at the Daily Kos in rants against his ongoing battle with the NRA doesn’t give you the hint of who this clown is then his long financial support of outrageous anti-rights fanatics will; Al Gore, Ed Kennedy, Diane Feinstein, Barbara Boxer, John Kerry and of course Bill Clinton. His ten year stint as an offensive lineman must have provided him one-too-many blows to the head as he attempts to suggest that conservation and our access to our own land is more important than our inalienable rights…somebody break out a smelling salt for this guy and shove it deep up his nose. Beyond the fact that no other group has fought harder for or given more money to the maintenance and stewardship of hunting land as well as conservation of all outdoor lands as a whole, hunters and hunting have nothing to do with our inalienble right to defend ourselves from criminals and tyrants.

By endorsing Barack Obama, Ray and every single current member of AHSA has announced their intention to outright ban nearly all firearms and our possession of them to literally take us back to the day of our founding fathers…no, worse than that, back to Flintlocks to hunt with but, only rocks and stones like a caveman to throw at our tormentors who are armed because they don’t recognize our laws…hence the term ‘criminal’.

Additionally, on choosing the date of the Virginia Tech shootings to endorse Obama must be one of the most brain-dead stunts in the history of our country in knowing that those children died as a direct result of keeping them and their teachers completely defenseless in the attack of a mass murderer…forget the smelling salts, this idiot is far beyond mere human help.

Yeah, Obama might “get” our rights if we allow the woefully inexperienced and wholly unqualified Bozo to occupy the White House but, I hope we rightly throw him out with the rest of the elitist trash just as we did Al Gore.

There are more snakes in the grass out there besides AHSA folks, be very careful who you join with.

A Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing by Chris Chumita http://www.gunowners.org/op0624.htm

Obama To Get The Dems “Barack” Into The Business of Gun Control by Erich Pratt http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm

Ray Schoenke on Zumbo and the NRA by Yuri http://therealgunguys.blogspot.com/2...o-and-nra.html

Anti-Gunners Don Camo As Elections Loom http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=200

American Hunters And Shooters Association: The Ultimate In Political Camouflage http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactShe...=232&issue=011

On The Issues Barack Obama On Gun Control http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/...un_Control.htm

Barack Hussein Obama
http://bhobama.blogspot.com/