"Gun show loophole"

[TWINMGT]

The UBC ammendment I think became more of a political move to show the anti's that they did something .Whether it was the right or wrong move didn't matter .

Would the UBC stop a bad guy from getting a gun? It may or may not depends on the circumstances .Will it affect the law abiding citizen negatively more than criminals?absolutely.

As a gun owner who has done privates sales before I say use common sense when selling a gun privately.I ask for a signed bill of sale and ID /ltcf .I know it is not required but I do it .I inform the buyer that I require it and if he or she objects to it then do not buy it from me.

Are there persons with all the wrong intentions at gun shows trying to buy guns? Of course they are and so are the law abiding citizen. And the only one who will be subjected to the UBC are the legitimate buyers.Cause the criminals will just try get their guns somewhere else.And to me that is where the UBC fails.

[tabasco_joe]

I operate on the principle that if there is little to no value in a law it shouldn't become a law.

Of the 27 homicides mentioned above committed by long guns, how many were stolen or sold by one felon to another? My guess a good number of those were and thus background checks for private sales are not very effective.

If you institute background checks at shows how does that work? Are they done by one of the FFLs at the show? If so are the FFLs at the show willing to take their time to do that instead of waiting on customers purchasing some of their inventory?

[father-of-five]

I am not aware of the procedures that other states have for purchasing a firearm. That's one of the reasons that Toomey really puzzled me in spinning things to show that even Pennsylvania needs reform, which in my opinion, Pennsylvania does not need such action. Like with much liberal thinking and terminology, terms like "gun show loophole" tend to have a varied meaning depending on the opinion of the moment. Then they inject false statistics like "Bitter O" did yesterday with his extremely ambiguous 90% stastic.

Solaran X said it best with the data presented from 2011. Let the truth stand!

[TaePo]

Just like the sales database in PA is temporary and to be destroyed after x amount of days; to be maintained by the State Police. But then that law is ignored. Then the court defines it is not a registry because not all guns are in it, only those sold within PA to other PA citizens. However, most guns are in it and the police are using it like a registration database anyway. Further, as time moves on, the majority of weapons will be in it with the exception of those who go out of state to live and move back. (Maybe 5% of the total?) So, effectively, it becomes a registry...

Now, a UB check in now way would never be violated by the state or federal government either, right? We have proof right here in PA that if you give an inch, they will take a mile. The Constitution is defined in a way to prevent this type of legislating in secret.

At one point, everyone had access to firearms. It was not a big deal. Society was healthy, too. You only had to deal with incidents where people violated the laws of assault, threat or murder/killing through due process. It doesn't matter if it was via gun, knife, car, alcohol, rope, black powder in pressure cookers etc. Killing is killing.

These schemes do little to nothing and cost a lot of money to implement, IMHO.

[tsafa]

Every gun I ever bought at a gun show in PA went through a background check. I don't know what loophole these jerkoff's are talking about.

The only thing I know of that does not require a background check in PA is private long-gun sales.

Have I just been going to the wrong gun-shows

[Solaran_X]

Every gun I ever bought at a gun show in PA went through a background check. I don't know what loophole these jerkoff's are talking about.

The only thing I know of that does not require a background check in PA is private long-gun sales.

Have I just been going to the wrong gun-shows

You need to go to the gun shows that are conducted in a back alley out of someone's trunk.

Those are the gun shows they're talking about,

[39flathead]

Every gun I ever bought at a gun show in PA went through a background check. I don't know what loophole these jerkoff's are talking about.

The only thing I know of that does not require a background check in PA is private long-gun sales.

Have I just been going to the wrong gun-shows

You mean you've never seen the guys wearing camo carrying a rusty 30-30 with a piece of paper taped to the stock with a price written in crayon walking around a show?
They usually smell like day old McDonalds cheeseburgers as well.

If not, you need to get out more.

[tsafa]

You mean you've never seen the guys wearing camo carrying a rusty 30-30 with a piece of paper taped to the stock with a price written in crayon walking around a show?
They usually smell like day old McDonalds cheeseburgers as well.

If not, you need to get out more.

Yes that I have seen... but that is ONE guy out of 400 vendors selling just ONE gun. That is a straight up private sale by one individual selling one gun... no different then if the sale was made at the shooting range or his house. These anti-gunners make it seem like every vendor at a show is selling guns without a background check. I have never seen anybody standing behind a table at a show who does not do a background check.

[mauser]

My opinion of the "gun show loophole" is that they are intentionally using wrong terminology to accomplish a goal. I've not been to a gun show outside of Pa., but I haven't known of any gun show vendors here who will sell a gun without a background check, so where's the loophole?
Private sales of long guns do not require a background check and private sales can happen at a gun show just like they can happen at someone's home or anywhere else. Proper terminology for this "loophole" would be the "Private Sale" loophole, but that wouldn't fit the agenda of the anti gun crowd, it just doesn't sound as sinister as a term that casts a bad light on something as American as an open market.
There's a criminal loophole too, thieves don't submit to background checks before they steal guns but you don't hear anyone bantering about that. That's a far greater source of weapons used in crimes than private sales ever was or will ever be.
Language is a major tool in the political arena, the worse you can make it sound the more support you can gain from people with limited knowledge of facts. You see it in the media all the time, they word the headlines to try to get you to form an opinion before you read the story. They find the picture that can be used to create a visual impression that will sway their audience to their opinion before any verbiage has been exchanged.
It's all about being a wordsmith, a smooth talker, and a convincing salesman to immediately sell your view before thoughtful opinions can be achieved.
We need to be vigilant in spreading factual information to those who obviously follow blindly. We need to try to open their eyes.

I can hear the collective thought, "Good luck with that", but honestly we need to keep talking and when we do we need to speak the truth and be prepared to back it up with facts and statistics.

[39flathead]

I'll comment once more and then I'm done, I'm not going to add to the hysteria on both sides of this issue:

Next time you are at a show, look for the dealers license to be displayed on his/her table. ATF regulations say it must be displayed.

Count the licenses is all I'm saying before going off on a rant and emailing your state Reps.