Here is a tricky one for you Old Wise Ones!

[Itsricmo]

When I turned 21 in March, my father gave me his pistol as a gift. I understand that is totally legal without any transfer of paperwork and I can carry it as I please with regard to the laws and what not. NOW... Since it is technically mine but paper trail my fathers... Can my fiancé legally carry the pistol so long she has her permit to carry? Will we be required to transfer it into my name for her to carry or can she only carry if it is hers 100% out right?


Thanks,
Rick

[RuthlessZ]

When I turned 21 in March, my father gave me his pistol as a gift. I understand that is totally legal without any transfer of paperwork and I can carry it as I please with regard to the laws and what not. NOW... Since it is technically mine but paper trail my fathers... Can my fiancé legally carry the pistol so long she has her permit to carry? Will we be required to transfer it into my name for her to carry or can she only carry if it is hers 100% out right?


Thanks,
Rick

Not old or wise, but I believe she must legally be your spouse before handgun transfers require no paperwork. After she is your spouse I believe you could have her carry "your" guns and you carry "hers" without it being "transferred" to you. If she is stopped, and a cop runs the gun through the illegal database, then your father's name will come up, which could be fine or a can of worms depending on the aptness of the officer. Legally the gun has been transferred to you, and is YOURS. Treat it like a handgun you bought at a store, that's how the law views it.

ETA
Damn, completely overlooked the whole LTCF lend thing, in that case, yes you can lend her your gun.

[Steve in PA]

Since she has a license to carry firearms (LTCF), as per PA CS § 6115 (b)(1)(i) you can lend her the firearm in order so that she can carry it.

§ 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
(a) OFFENSE DEFINED. — No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) EXCEPTION. —
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

[mauser]

I am not a lawyer and I don't profess to be an expert on the law, but my understanding of the situation is this:

Supposing that all parties involved are Pennsylvania residents and the gun is legally owned in Pennsylvania.

She can carry it or transport it as long as she has a valid Pennsylvania license to carry firearms.
She could borrow any legally owned firearm as long as it isn't borrowed as collateral.
It doesn't need to belong to a spouse or direct descendent to be loaned/borrowed.
Ownership can not be transferred to her without paperwork, but she may borrow and carry it.

Bold red is mine to highlight the exception that applies to this type of situation.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...18/00.061..HTM

§ 6115. Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited.
(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured
by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as
provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a
firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to
the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--
(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the
following apply:
(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed
to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to
licenses).
(ii) The person who receives the firearm is exempt
from licensing.
(iii) The person who receives the firearm is engaged
in a hunter safety program certified by the Pennsylvania
Game Commission or a firearm training program or
competition sanctioned or approved by the National Rifle
Association.
(iv) The person who receives the firearm meets all
of the following:
(A) Is under 18 years of age.
(B) Pursuant to section 6110.1 (relating to
possession of firearm by minor) is under the
supervision, guidance and instruction of a
responsible individual who:
(I) is 21 years of age or older; and
(II) is not prohibited from owning or
possessing a firearm under section 6105 (relating
to persons not to possess, use, manufacture,
control, sell or transfer firearms).
(v) The person who receives the firearm is lawfully
hunting or trapping and is in compliance with the
provisions of Title 34 (relating to game).
(vi) A bank or other chartered lending institution
is able to adequately secure firearms in its possession.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to
prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21
(relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the
individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning
or possessing a firearm under section 6105.
(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to
prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another in
one's dwelling or place of business if the firearm is
retained within the dwelling or place of business.
(4) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the
relinquishment of firearms to a third party in accordance
with 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third
party for safekeeping).
(June 13, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1024, No.17, eff. 120 days;
Nov. 10, 2005, P.L.335, No.66, eff. 180 days)

2005 Amendment. Act 66 added subsec. (b)(4).
Cross References. Section 6115 is referred to in section
6108.3 of Title 23 (Domestic Relations).

If I'm misunderstand the wording of this statute please correct me.

Steve in Pa beat me to it, but his post seems to support my understanding of it.

[Itsricmo]

Okay, so since I don't have a Degree in Law lol my understanding is that since she has a LTCF in Pennsylvania, Cambria County, she can carry my pistol as it is legally mine as viewed through the eyes of the law and I would be loaning it to a licensed person?
Please forgive my re-questioning but I just want to be 100% on this!

Thanks again,
Rick

[mauser]

Okay, so since I don't have a Degree in Law lol my understanding is that since she has a LTCF in Pennsylvania, Cambria County, she can carry my pistol as it is legally mine as viewed through the eyes of the law and I would be loaning it to a licensed person?
Please forgive my re-questioning but I just want to be 100% on this!

Thanks again,
Rick

No need to beg forgiveness for making sure you stay on the right side of the law.
The firearm doesn't need to be legally yours, it just needs to legally belong to someone. No need for a family type relationship.If she has a valid Pa. LTCF, the gun isn't on a "hot list" of some sort, and the gun isn't securing a loan of money or anything else of value she can borrow and carry it.

[knight0334]

If you two live together and she does not carry it out of the dwelling - no LTCF is needed. ...See 6115(b)(4) in mauser's quoted section of law.

If she carries it out of the dwelling(if living together), or you two live separately - she will need a LTCF.

[QuackXP]

Okay, so since I don't have a Degree in Law lol my understanding is that since she has a LTCF in Pennsylvania, Cambria County, she can carry my pistol as it is legally mine as viewed through the eyes of the law and I would be loaning it to a licensed person?
Please forgive my re-questioning but I just want to be 100% on this!

Thanks again,
Rick

I agree with others and my non-lawyer understanding of the law is that what you are doing is perfectly legal.

I personally (read: I don't think or expect everyone to think/do this) prefer not carry a firearm that is not in the "sales database" to save myself from the harassment if it became an issue during a LEO encounter.

[mauser]

If you two live together and she does not carry it out of the dwelling - no LTCF is needed. ...See 6115(b)(4) in mauser's quoted section of law.

If she carries it out of the dwelling(if living together), or you two live separately - she will need a LTCF.

Not to try to confuse the issue, but to clarify one possibility that hasn't been specifically addressed yet, could a person openly carry a borrowed firearm?
The way I interpret it is that the firearm can't even be borrowed if the borrower doesn't posses a valid LTCF, therefore the answer to my question would be no by my understanding.
Yes, I realize that the borrower in the original post here does have a valid LTCF, I'm just curious about a slight variation on the situation. The reason I'm asking is that I was near a similar situation this past weekend.
Several years ago my aunt gave me a revolver, (legal ownership transfer was done at Shyda's Gun Shop), and on Saturday we were talking about the sudden increase in armed robberies locally. I asked if she wanted the gun back, either transferred or borrowed and she said no she doesn't. I asked if she still has a valid LTCF and she said it expired and she didn't renew. At that point I said borrowing was out of the question in my mind, even though she would have kept it in her home at all times.
I knew it would have been OK if she still had the LTCF but I was sure that borrowing was a strict no-go, kept at home or not, carried or not, without it.

[Gun]

Not to try to confuse the issue, but to clarify one possibility that hasn't been specifically addressed yet, could a person openly carry a borrowed firearm?

It seems, only if that person has an LTCF.

6115.(b)(3) states that the loaned or gave firearm stay within the dwelling or place of business. Your aunt should have been able to keep the firearm in her home. This is incorrect, if the aunt lived in another dwelling, apart from the actual owner of the firearm. The firearm would have to be transferred if she had no LTCF, which then she, the aunt, could OC in accordance to state laws.

6115.(b)(4) pertains to relinquishing firearms for safekeeping.

IANAL.