FFL Sale PICS run in Absentia

**ungawa** · March 22nd, 2013, 07:37 PM

If you buy a gun from a PA FFL and PICS is down, can they have you fill out the form and provide ID and run PICS while you are not there? And let you take possession of the firearm at a later date when you return for it?

**SauerGrapes** · March 22nd, 2013, 07:56 PM

I don't know if it's legal, but I know of a few times it's been done. I can't see a reason why it would be illegal since you do not participate in the PICS process.

**mojollnir** · March 22nd, 2013, 08:42 PM

Not sure if legal,....not sure there is any requirement making it illegal. I have seen it happen, recently. More than once, more than one ffl.

**MikeStull** · March 22nd, 2013, 08:45 PM

For a handgun the Application/Record of Sale seems to indicate that this is legal. Section B is completed prior to the PICS call, in essence the application. Section C is separate and, in all my LGS experiences, completed after the PICS approval. Section C acknowledges receipt of the firearm.

I am not a lawyer so this is simply a citizen's observation. I defer to those more learned than I.

**39flathead** · March 23rd, 2013, 12:46 AM

Here is the law as written:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/03...chap33toc.html

What you are asking does not seem to be spelled out.

It seems you can get pre approved.

I know when we do a raffle, PICS wants to know so if there is a problem with a potential buyer they can tell PSP where to go.

The approval number is only good at that dealer for that day, if you took actual possession the next day wouldn't that be the actual date of the transaction making the prior approval number void?

**Hagbard Celiene** · March 23rd, 2013, 01:18 AM

I had this very thing occure when I bought my first handgun. I filled everything out, and was all set to pay and take possession, when I was told PICS was down. went back the next day and completed the sale.

So AFAIK, this shouldn't be an issue, but IANAL.

**PaGunner** · March 23rd, 2013, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by 39flathead

The approval number is only good at that dealer for that day, if you took actual possession the next day wouldn't that be the actual date of the transaction making the prior approval number void?

FlatHead is correct. I spoke with my FFL (Dick Hughey) about this one night in Jan. It took him a few tries to get through to PICS due to a couple gunshows and the great panic of 2013. He said I could wait around until he got through or he would keep trying and call me when completed but I had to pick up the firearm that night.

So the short is the PICS confirmation number is only valid for the date it is run. Do LGs and FFLs bend the rules sometimes? Probably, but it's their ass if the man wants drop the hammer on them.

**Emptymag** · March 23rd, 2013, 11:17 AM

This past Black Friday when everyone was buying up guns because of the election, there was a line 40 people long at Dunham's gun counter trying to buy black rifles.
Since it was midnight and PICS was not open, they were having everyone fill out the paperwork and put a deposit on it like a layaway. Everyone was told they had to come back the next day to pick up the rifles.

On a side note, I just laughed at all of them standing there for an hour. I had come in the day before and put my rifle on layaway. It wasn't on sale at the time, but all I needed to do was go to the register and get a price adjustment, and I was done.
Suckers.