Question about 302 laws.

**The Unknown 1087** · March 13th, 2013, 10:09 PM

So a few awhile ago (it's been years so I have to remember what I can), we got called out to assist PD with a 302. Someone was drunk and said a few things that were about self harm and whatnot. <PERSON A>

That other person <B> Contacted the county Crisis intervention Center. Told them exactly what the person said and how they were acting. The Crisis center issued a 302 on that alone. They signed, and had PD go out to meet and go to the hospital. However since he was pretty drunk they called an ambulance to rule out other medical issues, and we ended up taking him to the hospital under the 302.

He was allowed to go home the same night.

Is that person still screwed for having a 302 issued even though he wasn't held? He was deemed not a threat to himself or others, he wasn't even voluntarily either.

I was thinking about it because of another incident were a guy was drunk, and someone contacted the police and he got slammed with a 302 and then it got changed to a 201. (Voluntary).

If they are banned from owning guns after the stuff was not founded. It really makes you think. If someone doesn't like you, all they have to do is say "He or she owns guns and threatened to kill themselves or others" And they take you to the hospital as a 302 involuntary, and then figure out there was nothing wrong....That's messed up.

**knight0334** · March 13th, 2013, 11:11 PM

I think, and I mean I think, for it to truly be a 302 the person has to be confined for XX number of hours.

**Chazman321** · March 13th, 2013, 11:39 PM

The answer is simple. It Depends... lol
Just because someone is taken to the ER on a 302 warrant (that's what it is, an arrest warrant) doesn't mean they are 302'd.

When I do a 302, I fill out a section saying who the person is, who I am, and what the patient did or said. The doctor or his agent must then examine the person. The person has to meet certain qualifications. First, they have to be a threat to themselves or others. Second, they have to have a plan. Third, they have to have the ability to carry out that plan. Finally, they have to have made the threat recently. The form says "in the past 30 days" but if it didn't happen within the past few days, the doctor doesn't give a hoot.

On the third page is 2 spots for the ER doctor to sign off on. One says they examined the patient and the patient needs inpatient treatment. The other says the patient was examined and found not to be a danger to themselves or others and is free to go. Technically the law says the person should be taken back to the place they were found... lol

During the examination the doctor (or a mental health tech that reports to the doctor) asks the above questions and a bunch of other questions, and signs the report. Or, in the case of a tech, reports his finding to the doctor to have him make a decision. Before a 302 is signed, they will offer, usually no fewer than 2 times for the person to go voluntarily.

If the feel the person needs treatment and refuses help, then they sign the 302. If the volunteer to go in, then they shred the 302. If the person isn't or convinces them they aren't a threat to themselves or others, they sign the discharge portion of the 302 and the person is free to leave.

They can ask if a person wants to go to a 201 after a 302, but it doesn't matter. Once that 302 is signed and submitted to the county, it is game over. Usually once a week the 302's are taken to the County Mental Health office. They are then sent to the PSP Firearms Division and then entered into PICS and NICS...

They can sign your 302 and let you walk out the door 10 minutes later and it won't matter. The bad part is, unless you try to buy a gun or get a LTCF, you don't know if you're prohibited or not...

-Chaz

**str8shooter** · March 14th, 2013, 12:18 AM

IANAL.

To extrapolate on Chazman321's response

§ 5100.86. Involuntary emergency examination and treatment not to exceed 120 hours.

(a) Written applications, warrants, and written statements made under section 302 of the act (50 P. S. § 7302), shall be made on Form MH-783 issued by the Department.

(c) Any person authorized under section 302 of the act to take a person to a treatment facility for involuntary emergency examination and treatment shall explain to the person in need of such examination and treatment the nature and purpose of the action to be undertaken.

(e) Upon arrival at a facility previously designated as a provider of emergency examinations. Form MH-783 shall be completed and Form MH-783-B shall be given to the person subject to the examination. The person shall be informed of his right to counsel and be advised that if he cannot afford counsel, counsel can be provided.

(g) If the person is determined to be severely mentally disabled and in need of immediate treatment:

(1) The examining physician shall make certain that the person has received a copy of forms MH-782, Bill of Rights, and MH-783-A, Explanation of Rights Under Involuntary Emergency Commitment.

(j) Examination preliminaries.

(1) The facility shall deliver Forms MH-782, and MH-783-A to each person to be examined and shall inform him or her of the purpose and nature of the examination.

(2) The person shall be requested to furnish the names of up to three parties whom he may want notified and kept informed of his status. The parties may, at the request of the patient, be informed of any major change in the person’s status, including transfer, escape, major change in medical condition or discharge.

(3) The person shall be informed of his right to counsel.

(4) Reasonable use of the telephone shall mean at least three completed phone calls. If assistance is required, the facility shall assist the individual in completing phone calls. The cost of any toll calls shall be borne by the person in need of treatment, although actual payment shall not be a precondition to the person’s use of the telephone.

I've been on many calls where the local PD told someone they were being 302'd and gave them the "choice" of going to the hospital in an ambulance or in cuffs in the back of a squad car just to get them to hospital. Typically it was for someone with a one time non lethal drug overdose or someone who stopped taking psychotropic drugs and was scaring a family member. Once there neither the PD nor the ER staff followed through with the procedures and paperwork for an "official" 302, but merely kept the patient there until they were convinced the person could return home without the threat of hurting themselves or others.

The important thing is to find out if the person who was transported to the hospital received a copy of the paperwork and to contact the hospital directly to find out if a 302 was ever filed with the PA Dept. of Mental Health.

**LilEMT** · March 14th, 2013, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Unknown 1087

So a few awhile ago (it's been years so I have to remember what I can), we got called out to assist PD with a 302. Someone was drunk and said a few things that were about self harm and whatnot. <PERSON A>

That other person <B> Contacted the county Crisis intervention Center. Told them exactly what the person said and how they were acting. The Crisis center issued a 302 on that alone. They signed, and had PD go out to meet and go to the hospital. However since he was pretty drunk they called an ambulance to rule out other medical issues, and we ended up taking him to the hospital under the 302.

He was allowed to go home the same night.

Is that person still screwed for having a 302 issued even though he wasn't held? He was deemed not a threat to himself or others, he wasn't even voluntarily either.

I was thinking about it because of another incident were a guy was drunk, and someone contacted the police and he got slammed with a 302 and then it got changed to a 201. (Voluntary).

If they are banned from owning guns after the stuff was not founded. It really makes you think. If someone doesn't like you, all they have to do is say "He or she owns guns and threatened to kill themselves or others" And they take you to the hospital as a 302 involuntary, and then figure out there was nothing wrong....That's messed up.

By law they have to offer a 201 before you can 302 (probably why it was downgraded). And if the 302 wasn't upheld then he was never "committed" so i couldn't see it affecting anything.

**SigForLife** · March 16th, 2013, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by LilEMT

By law they have to offer a 201 before you can 302 (probably why it was downgraded). And if the 302 wasn't upheld then he was never "committed" so i couldn't see it affecting anything.

This is not true, see the Superior Court's decision in In re: Kevin Jacobs, 2011 PA Super 39 (2011).