Question for 18USC, 926a gurus

[ray h]

I'm taking a trip through a couple of states which my LTCF isn't recognized. I know what FOPA says about interstate transport but I want some opinions on something. The law says "during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle".
What is "readily accessible or directly accessible"?
I ask because our rear seat back folds down giving access to the trunk with a simple pull of a knob. I'm wondering if a pull of a knob could be considered "readily accessible"?

[QuackXP]

I'm taking a trip through a couple of states which my LTCF isn't recognized. I know what FOPA says about interstate transport but I want some opinions on something. The law says "during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle".
What is "readily accessible or directly accessible"?
I ask because our rear seat back folds down giving access to the trunk with a simple pull of a knob. I'm wondering if a pull of a knob could be considered "readily accessible"?

That is a tough call. I have only hatchbacks and when I did I put the firearms in locking containers to be safe. This may be overkill for how the law is written. But I did not want to take chances on how the law might be interpreted.

I kept ammo in factory boxes inside a non locking container.

[tl_3237]

18 USC 926A:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Use locked containers for ammo/firearms then you won't have to guess about the definition of 'accessible'.

[Kurt_D]

I'm taking a trip through a couple of states which my LTCF isn't recognized. I know what FOPA says about interstate transport but I want some opinions on something. The law says "during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle".
What is "readily accessible or directly accessible"?
I ask because our rear seat back folds down giving access to the trunk with a simple pull of a knob. I'm wondering if a pull of a knob could be considered "readily accessible"?

You left out the qualifying part of the code:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

(Bold/color/underline = my edit)

Covers SUVs, etc. I would say that even though there is entry to the trunk via pulls in the seat back(s) that would not be considered "readily accessible" from the passenger compartment. Put the gun in a case in the trunk and the ammo in a locked container and you should be good to go. Just be aware that some states consider loaded mags, even separate from the pistol, as the gun being loaded. May also apply to speed loaders in some "PR of" states.

Not an attorney but...

Edit: Ooops! TL 3237 beat me to it.

[ray h]

I know the rest of it because I travel alot in a Jeep Wrangler and a motorcycle but the way I read it, that part of the code definately doesn't apply because the trunk, while it may or may not be readily accessible, is definately a seperate compartment while the seat back is up. This is the whole problem with the way the code is written. The trunk is definately a "seperate compartment" so keeping the gun or ammo in a locked container does not apply, BUT, it's not clear whether the trunk is not "readily accessible", so transporting in a locked container may actually be the wrong thing to do.
Follow?

[Kurt_D]

If you put them in the trunk AND in locked cases/containers, the locked cases would make them being in an "accessible" trunk moot - just makes the gun/ammo even less accessible, the whole point of the statute. The clauses are not mutually exclusive - doesn't mean that you can't put locks on the containers as well.

[ray h]

If you put them in the trunk AND in locked cases/containers, the locked cases would make them being in an "accessible" trunk moot - just makes the gun/ammo even less accessible, the whole point of the statute. The clauses are not mutually exclusive - doesn't mean that you can't put locks on the containers as well.

You're right in the intent but technically the way it's written, it's two seperate things. The trunk is most definately a seperate compartment and the code says that in vehicles without a seperate compartment. If my vehicle has a seperate compartment I can't take advantage of that part of the code.

BTW, my plan is to put them in a case in the trunk and not worry about it but I just want opinions on whether I would be legal to lock the firearm in a container and store it under the seat.

Here it is in a nutshell, my vehicle has a seperate compartment but that compartment is readily accessible.

To be completely compliant it would seem that I would have to disable the seat release so the trunk isn't accessible from inside the passenger compartment.
I won't be doing that.

[tl_3237]

If you place the firearms/ammo in the trunk within their locked containers then there are two possibilities:

1. the trunk is determined to be a separate compartment. In this case the mere fact that they are in the trunk would satisfy 926A transport methodology;

2. the trunk is determined NOT to be a separate compartment. In this case the locked containers would satisfy 926A transport methodology.

In either case you have met the prerequisite - you have a viable avenue to garner the 926A protection.

Legality of storing in a locked container under the seat would, using strict construction, hinges on the 'accessibility' determination. I'm unaware of any case law better defining the term so it's up to the trier-of-law and trier-of-fact if it came to trial. Since you're intending to place the firearm in a locked container in the trunk, where the legal line would be drawn is an academic exercise without any definitive resolution at this time.

My opinion - if the vehicle is designed to allow facilitated trunk access, from the passenger compartment without alighting from the vehicle, then it would not qualify as a separate compartment within the 926A context. That said I wouldn't proceed on that notion and risk a state felony conviction.

[ray h]

If you place the firearms/ammo in the trunk within their locked containers then there are two possibilities:

1. the trunk is determined to be a separate compartment. In this case the mere fact that they are in the trunk would satisfy 926A transport methodology;

2. the trunk is determined NOT to be a separate compartment. In this case the locked containers would satisfy 926A transport methodology.

In either case you have met the prerequisite - you have a viable avenue to garner the 926A protection.

Legality of storing in a locked container under the seat would, using strict construction, hinges on the 'accessibility' determination. I'm unaware of any case law better defining the term so it's up to the trier-of-law and trier-of-fact if it came to trial. Since you're intending to place the firearm in a locked container in the trunk, where the legal line would be drawn is an academic exercise without any definitive resolution at this time.

My opinion - if the vehicle is designed to allow facilitated trunk access, from the passenger compartment without alighting from the vehicle, then it would not qualify as a separate compartment within the 926A context. That said I wouldn't proceed on that notion and risk a state felony conviction.

The problem as I see it is in the wording. The trunk can be both a seperate compartment AND readily accessible. If it is both of these, that leaves no where to put a firearm because 1): It has to be in a compartment that is not readily accessible, OR 2): in a locked case if there is no seperate compartment. If I'm in a vehicle without a readily accessible compartment that is a seperate compartment, by the letter of the law, I'm screwed.
This is really just a mental exercise because I've already decided what I'm going to do with it, but it does demonstrate how inept a group of lawmakers can be. They take a simple law and change a couple of words mess a whole code up. Why would they choose "accessible" and "seperate" to describe opposing things when those two words do not oppose each other. Why not use "inaccessable" instead of "seperate".

[Greywolf]

Covers SUVs, etc. I would say that even though there is entry to the trunk via pulls in the seat back(s) that would not be considered "readily accessible" from the passenger compartment. Put the gun in a case in the trunk and the ammo in a locked container and you should be good to go. Just be aware that some states consider loaded mags, even separate from the pistol, as the gun being loaded. May also apply to speed loaders in some "PR of" states.

Not an attorney but...

If you can open the rear seat for access to the trunk, then the trunk is "directly" accessible from the passenger compartment.

What "some states" consider technically isn't relevant, since the FOPA begins by saying "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, ..." However, it has certainly been proven that a few states don't think the law applies to them.

Locking gun cases aren't expensive. The shop at my range has some MTM Caseguard cases for handguns for less than ten bucks. They have a hole for a padlock, and you can buy cheap luggage padlocks at Wal-Mart for peanuts. The law doesn't require a GOOD locking container, just locked.

When I travel with a rifle, the one I usually take came with an inexpensive hard case that has no provision for locking. A few years ago my local PD was giving away cable gun locks. I grabbed a few then, and the cable is just long enough to wrap around the handles of the rifle case twice and then lock. There isn't enough slack to open the case, so it's secured.

The FOPA calls for the firearm(s) ''OR" ammunition to be in a locked container. If your route goes through New Jersey, be advised that NJ state law actually mirrors the language of the FOPA almost exactly. However, where the FOPA says "or" the NJ law says "and." Yes, the Federal law would prevail, but my preference would be to not have to go to court and fight that out. When I had to travel through NJ, I dredged up an old Craftsman toolbox, put all my ammo in that, and threw a cheap padlock on it.