Private Party Handgun Sales

[Delkal]

A friend of mine bought a nice Luger at a gunshow from a guy walking around trying to sell it. He said the guy wasn't a dealer and he paid cash with no paperwork. It was a few years ago and in Pa.

I told him he might have an illegal gun. What happens if you get a handgun in Pa without an FFL transfer. Can he still register it not knowing the original sellers name and address?

I was always confused with Pa law. On the books there is no handgun registration but isn't this really registration?

[tl_3237]

A friend of mine bought a nice Luger at a gunshow from a guy walking around trying to sell it. He said the guy wasn't a dealer and he paid cash with no paperwork. It was a few years ago and in Pa.

I told him he might have an illegal gun. What happens if you get a handgun in Pa without an FFL transfer. Can he still register it not knowing the original sellers name and address?

I was always confused with Pa law. On the books there is no handgun registration but isn't this really registration?

There is no registration per se but there is a record of sales database for handguns.

The seller of the handgun broke the law (18 Pa CS 6111(c)) and, as such, the gun is illegal and potentially contraband. Doing a self<>self transfer at an FFL will 'register' the handgun. Hopefully the initial illegal transfer does not come to the attention of the authorities and the FFL does not inquire as to its provenance.

[flyingjunkie]

This is the kind of thing that the anti's would love to hear about. This is their supposed "gun show loop hole." Fortunately, I'm going to make the assumption that your buddy is a good guy, in which case we're lucky that that gun got into the "right" hands as opposed to someone looking to commit a crime with it. Personally, that's a gun I'd be afraid to have in my possession. If it were used in a crime at some point, I definitely wouldn't want to be associated with it. If he's bent on keeping it, it's something that should stay locked in the safe and MAYBE only ever taken to the range if out at all. I think that's one case that I would go to these "gun buybacks," get a gift card and use the money to buy some more ammo and accessories for guns I already have.

On the other side of the coin going along with another post about a self self transfer, couldn't he just transfer it to someone else, then transfer it back? I'm not sure about how FFLs work entirely, so I can't be certain. It's more of a question on my part to bring a potentially illegal firearm back to legal status.

Just my $.02

Let us know hwo things work out.

[BimmerJon]

This isn't a "loophole"
The person in the OP's story committed a crime
Gun show loopholes DONT exist.

[Grumpa72]

This isn't a "loophole"
The person in the OP's story committed a crime
Gun show loopholes DONT exist.

No loophole in PA but my brother has purchased at least one I know of in OH FTF without FFL involvement. Perfectly legal in Ohio.

[wellcraft]

in PA the transfer was illegal because pistols must be transferred via a FFL. my concern would be if the seller stole the gun which would make your friend in possession of a stolen firearm. the seller may have just been ignorant of the law, unlikely, or a thief, likely, that sold a stolen weapon to your friend. your friend could be prosecuted for the illegal transfer of the firearm or being in possession of a stolen firearm or both. my recommendation would be get rid of the gun or try and find out if the gun has been reported stolen.

[Delkal]

I don't think the pistol was ever stolen. Supposedly it was some old guy walking around trying to sell it to dealers. Not some guy in a van. He bought rifles from private sellers at gunshows like that before, just didn't know you couldn't do that with handguns in PA.

He has a very nice collectors grade Luger and he wouldn't even admit what he paid. There is no way he would give it to a gun buyback. I will tell him to look into the self transfer. Does anyone know how that works?

Maybe if I scare him enough he will sell it to me (transferred at an FFL) for a good price!

[flyingjunkie]

This isn't a "loophole"
The person in the OP's story committed a crime
Gun show loopholes DONT exist.

I know that there's no loophole. YOU know there's no loophole. Hell, we ALL know that. That's why I put "Gun show loophole" in quotes in my original post. Because this is the kind of thing that the anti's are looking for. That people can just go to gun shows and buy any gun they want without any paperwork or background checks. It doesn't matter if it's actually illegal and that this was a one-time occurrence. To the anti's, One time is every time. And that's exactly how they would spin it to the MSM and the MSM would just run with it. We've seen it all before...

[str8shooter]

Here's what the MSM and antis consider the gun show loophole, even though it has nothing to do with either.

Someone can buy a truck load of long guns from around the state FTF with no background checks. Then rent a table at a gun show and sell them FTF, again with no background check. Risky way to make a buck, but still legal.

Calling it a "gun show loophole" is like saying someone who claims the legal tax exemption on their tax return for their kids is using the "family loophole". And someone inclined to sell guns in this manner could so in their driveway just as legally as at a gun show.

[XTrooper]

Someone can buy a truck load of long guns from around the state FTF with no background checks. Then rent a table at a gun show and sell them FTF, again with no background check. Risky way to make a buck, but still legal.

This isn't a loophole nor is it legal either. What you've described is dealing in firearms without a license and your hypothetical seller/dealer wouldn't be the first so charged by the ATF. The law doesn't specify how many guns bought and then sold for profit constitutes "dealing," but buying a "truckload" of guns, renting a table at a gun show, and selling them for profit would easily qualify since this is a charge that can and is arbitrarily applied.