Do you think that form 4473 is equal to or could be used as gun registration?

[pacodelahoya]

Just curious how others feel about the recording of transfers. This is assuming 4473's for all future transactions as is being considered by the PTB.

If you answered no, please explain why.

[ar15jules]

Ruger manufactures rifle A. ATF has record of it.
Ruger sells to distributor. ATF has record of it.
You place an order at your local shop. Local shop buys from distributor. ATF has record of it.
You fill out the 4473. ATF has record of it.
You hunt with the rifle for five years and sell it to your cousin. NO RECORD.
Your cousin needs money and sells it to his boss. NO RECORD

All the 4473 does is track one SALE from an FFL to customer. They really aren't a registration in my opinion.

Jules

[pacodelahoya]

I should have said if all transactions are to require a 4473,,, perhaps I can edit poll

[donm]

From 4473 only asks for the type of gun (handgun, rifle, other). They could track the number of guns you bought, but would need to go to the FFL's book for the details (model, S/N). Unless they add them to the "registry that's not a registry," of course.

[Shisno]

If all transactions from here on out requires a 4473 (including private) then yes, that would be a registry to me.

[gnbrotz]

Unless they add them to the "registry that's not a registry," of course.

AFAIK, the PSP (the one's who maintain the "registry that's not a registry") don't see the 4473, and the SP4-113 (the PSP form that is used to compile the "registry that's not a registry") isn't completed for long guns, even when purchased from an FFL.

[knight0334]

Some of you all have no clue what a "registry" is.

A registry is where you are forced to list/detail your firearms that currently own, and purchase in the future. There are usually penalties for not registering the gun(s), like forfeiture, fines, jail time, etc.

Even if all future private transfers will require going through a FFL and having a 4473 filled out, the ATF has no F'n clue who owns the gun. The dealer keeps the 4473 for a minimum of 20 years.

The 4473 is by no means a registry. The government does not know what you own from the 4473's, and only sees them if the dealer goes out of business - which he is then required to send the past 20 years to the ATF.

If you want to find out what a registry is, move to NYS, NYC, DC, Chicago, CA, HI, and a couple other places.

[gnbrotz]

Some of you all have no clue what a "registry" is.

A registry is where you are forced to list/detail your firearms that currently own, and purchase in the future. There are usually penalties for not registering the gun(s), like forfeiture, fines, jail time, etc.

Even if all future private transfers will require going through a FFL and having a 4473 filled out, the ATF has no F'n clue who owns the gun. The dealer keeps the 4473 for a minimum of 20 years.

The 4473 is by no means a registry. The government does not know what you own from the 4473's, and only sees them if the dealer goes out of business - which he is then required to send the past 20 years to the ATF.

If you want to find out what a registry is, move to NYS, NYC, DC, Chicago, CA, HI, and a couple other places.

I agree with your post, but I think it IS worth noting that the PSP do actively catalog and retain information in direct violation of statute, and many, MANY police officers across this state access it frequently in an attempt to prove ownership, even going so far as to confiscate weapons they believe are not "registered" to the person in possession of them.

At least under a "real" registration scheme, their actions would be in line with the law, though I'm sure they would continue to find ways to abuse both the new system and lawful gun owners.

[pacodelahoya]

Knight0334 said "The 4473 is by no means a registry. The government does not know what you own from the 4473's, and only sees them if the dealer goes out of business - which he is then required to send the past 20 years to the ATF."

Then please explain to me, if in fact it does not know what guns I own, what is the governments purpose in requiring me to fill out a 4473?

How hard would it be for them to go to an ffl and cross reference the bound book and 4473's ?

Is it imo a registry like person A bought gun B on day C? No, but all the information is there and it is available.

[Grey Bearded One]

Ruger manufactures rifle A. ATF has access to records.
Ruger sells to distributor. ATF has access to records.
You place an order at your local shop. Local shop buys from distributor. ATF has access to records.
You fill out the 4473. ATF has access to records.

Fixed it for you.