Safir Arms T14

[ranchdude]

Any info on the new .410 AR out of the SHOT show? I called ATI today, but of course got voicemail. I did leave a message. But in my experience, I'll never hear anything back from them.

Unfortunately no, I searched around the interweb quite a bit after the shot show and only found a few vague references to their new Omni based shotgun...

I posted some questions on ATI's Facebook page I but never got any response. I'm not holding my breath, ATI is beginning to look shadier and shadier to me every year.

[jb2c]

I've left two voicemails with ATI in the last week. Of course, no response at all. I'm still trying to find out if the bolt on the new Omni will work in the
T-14 Safir gun.

Ranchdude, I haven't forgotten you, if I decide to use the lower on the gun for another build and just forget about the T14.

[cruzans]

Nice! Looks like the European 36 caliber stuff I've seen on some of Safir's pages. I bet it will work well. Where did you find it?

Dan's Sporting goods online. $49.99 - couldn't resist ! If it works well, I'll be buying another one or two

[Donny Boy]

Hello everyone, I've been following this thread on the T-14 for a few days now and decided I had to become a member! It's good to see that there are people out there who haven't forgotten the T-14. Personally, I fell in love with the idea of an AR chambered in .410 ever since I came across a youtube video on Safir's T-14 around '07 maybe? I finally got to own one in early 2013 and the experience has been bitter-sweet. Maybe addictive is a better word. I can ramble on and on but I'd like to make as best a first impression as possible! Hopefully, we can all learn from each other and be able to enjoy this unique shotgun a little more. I can say I have already learned a lot just by reading your posts, and hopefully I might be able to bring some useful knowledge to the thread

P.S. ranchdude, huge props to you, dude, you have really studied the T-14 and I'm very impressed. You know your stuff!

[Donny Boy]

I do have a question I'm wondering if anybody could enlighten me on. I have spent many hours reading up on 922r compliance to see if it applies to my particular issue, but anyway, I'm in Arkansas (if that even matters), where I can't complain about the gun laws.

Now, would it be legal for me to build a .410 AR-style pistol (13" Safir barrel in mind), just like I could with any rifle caliber that an AR chambers? Or is different since it's a shotgun?

[Donny Boy]

I have a few T-14 mags and have noticed the following with what I have:

There are 2 types, at least with the "5 rounders" (most hold 6), I call the first the first type "wide-bodies" because they are wider and have a snug fit when inserted into a Safir lower, and they will not fit in (or at least the ones I've tried) in standard AR mag wells. No Bushmaster, PSA, or Barnes Precision (the ones I've tried). The wide-bodied 6 rounders also take certain shells that the all the other ones won't. I noticed their corners are have tighter radiuses, making them more rectangular from top view.

The high capacity mags I have are not wide-bodied, they do fit in AR mag wells (rather loosely in my opinion), and are even more loose in a Safir lower. They are also not as reliable. Although when luck is in my favor, I can do mag dumps with a SlideFire setup

I'm assuming they came along when Safir decided to focus more on selling their uppers rather than the whole rifle. I would offer a few of my hi-cap mags for sale but I bought them during the worst of the gun scare and this guy on gunbroker was definitely price gouging, and I was panic-buying, at a little over $100 a piece for some shipped

[cruzans]

Nice to see another T14 owner Donny! I like my Safir but very ammo picky as far as fitting in magazines. I received a list from ATI of what ammo works best which was helpful. Back when they still had them, ATI also sent me several hi-capacity mags free - I think it was toward the end when they knew they weren't going to be carrying them any more so I just came along at the right time. The Enfield 410 rounds I bought fit easily and perfectly into the hi-cap mags so I really, really hope they work. I'm going to try to get out sometime this week to test them - fingers crossed!

[ranchdude]

I do have a question I'm wondering if anybody could enlighten me on. I have spent many hours reading up on 922r compliance to see if it applies to my particular issue, but anyway, I'm in Arkansas (if that even matters), where I can't complain about the gun laws.

Now, would it be legal for me to build a .410 AR-style pistol (13" Safir barrel in mind), just like I could with any rifle caliber that an AR chambers? Or is different since it's a shotgun?

Well that is an interesting question, one that perhaps only the BATF can answer with any certainty, but even with the BATF a letter stating something isn't binding if they decide to change their minds later... but I digress.

As far as my understanding goes, if it's a shotgun it can't be a pistol, it can only be a shotgun or a short barreled shotgun. A smooth bored weapon is a shotgun, period. Now you might say what about the Judge? Well, it's not smooth bored, it's rifled, so it's not a shotgun even though it can fire shotgun rounds.

And if the barrel of a shotgun is less than 18" long, its NFA and you'll need a $200 stamp for a short barrel shotgun. It might even be considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) in which case you still need the $200 stamp and all the hoops to jump through to get one...

I think I may be one of very few people in the US that has a AR15 based rifle registered as a SBS. It's one of the only exceptions to the unwritten BATF rule that once a rifle, always a rifle, that is unless you put a smooth bore barrel on it then it becomes a shotgun...

As for 922r compliance, the T-14 is complaint as long as you don't put a high capacity magazine in it. Once you do that, its no longer 922r compliant unless you replace enough parts on it to bring the foreign part count down to 10 or less on the list of counted parts...

Ranchdude out...

[jb2c]

Shotgun is an SBS, not an SBR. The barrel has to be 18" on a shotgun vs 16" on a rifle for it to be legal. But I assume you are talking about getting a tax stamp for it, correct?

[ranchdude]

P.S. ranchdude, huge props to you, dude, you have really studied the T-14 and I'm very impressed. You know your stuff!

LOL, thanks, I after a while I really didn't know if anyone was even reading anything I was writing but I just kept rambling on in case someone would eventually be interested.