Safir Arms T14

[jb2c]

I'm thinking real hard about just stripping the gun and using whatever parts I can to just build another AR, and forgetting the whole .410 thing. At least I'd have a complete lower (I just bought one of the later uppers). Does the Safir rail fit on a standard AR15?

I guess I'll give it awhile and see if that new ATI .410 may have the same bolt and/or BCG as the Safir had. And if they'll sell me just that part. After the debacle with Safir, ATI should be going out of their way to try to support the product they sold.

I hope Safir doesn't have any plans to bring any other product into the USA.

[jb2c]

Oh, I forgot to ask...

can you see any differences in the BCG externally between the Safir carrier and a standard AR15 bolt carrier?

[ranchdude]

Without a doubt you can easily see the differences between a Safir .410 and a standard AR BCG just by the number of lugs on the bolt alone. And the firing pin keeper is a roll pin that has to be driven out with a punch on all Safir BCGs that I've seen. However I have heard second hand that there were a lot of changes made when they started to assemble them in the USA. There are even more subtle differences in the BCG than I've already mentioned that would take a trained eye to spot. And the firing pin is not the same as a standard AR either.

If you decide to convert your t14 to a standard AR let me know. I'll give to something for the upper parts.

The railed version of the T14 has a taller front rail than a standard AR and it has a protruding key that locks it into the upper. It is not interchangeable with a standard AR upper.

[ranchdude]

I'm not sure if the ATI bolt and carrier will be the same. Who knows maybe they'll license the design from Safir and manufacture it in the US to get around the 922r compliance issues. Time will tell althought if they don't use the exact same design it's very unlikely the bolts will be interchangeable. But at least you could buy their complete upper. Their mags have a better chance of being compatible since they have to fit in a standard AR magwell and have to also be single stack. Let's just hope they will be compatible.

Btw what part of your BCG failed?

[jb2c]

Long story on that one. And not the BCG's fault. The bolt broke. I no longer have the bolt (pieces) or the carrier though.

I'll certainly let you know if I decide to use T14 parts to do an AR build. I may try to mod the rail to use on an AR. I'll have to take a closer look. I have a buddy that's been a machinist for nearly 40 years and can do just about anything with metal. He designs replacement airplane parts. So very high tolerance work. I just try not to bother him with more 'projects' too often!

Maybe I'll get lucky and the ATI BCG will be the same. I don't see myself buying the complete ATI upper though. Not after what I've been through trying to find mags for the Safir. And now this issue. ATI just stopped producing mags to support the Safir guns they sold. I don't know the whole story there. My guess is that Safir screwed ATI by just leaving and going back to Turkey (due to trying to start up a plant in the completely wrong state... New Jersey. Duh!!). But ATI should still have continued to make mags for some decent period of time to support the guns they did sell. Instead, from what I could see, they just completely dropped support for the T14 altogether. Basically saying to heck with the customers that had bought T14's from them. So I'm not real inclined to buy anything from ATI, whether made by ATI or not. That's the big reason I'm leaning towards just using the parts for an AR build.

But we'll see. IF it's the same BCG, and IF they'll sell me just the BCG, I'd probably buy it. But based on my experience with ATI thus far, I doubt they'll have any concern whatsoever in trying to satisfy a customer that's unhappy.

[ranchdude]

I don't blame you a bit for feeling that way about ATI. But my experience with importers is they're just in it for the money and not much more. It would be nice if ATI did give the T-14 owners some love though. The Shot Show is coming up soon, so we should get some more info on their new .410 AR in about 14 days. Sure wish I could be there to talk to them face to face.

[ranchdude]

I have heard a rumor (although not verified) that the magazines Wilson Combat are selling for their .458 Socom project can be made to work with the Safir .410. These are set up for single stack feed, and are based on the Lancer AWM mags, which sounds a lot like the setup the guy on gunbroker was using earlier this year with the T-14's he was building from parts.

While the .458 shell casing is a larger OD, its rimless. Where the .410 shell is rimmed, and the rim does have a larger OD than the casing. So, it might just work for a .410 although the few photos I've seen of these it doesn't appear the follower is ramped up like a Safir magazine is and it therefore may not feed properly in the T-14. And these mags only hold 7 rounds of .458 so they would probably only hold the same number of rounds of .410...

Just putting it out there if someone wants to give it a try.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/AR-Style...o/TR-458LMAG7/

[cruzans]

So I posted in another thread about the Enfield 410 ball ammo I just purchased ( in tin in crate ). I am hopeful that it will work nicely in the Safir ! The round is shorter than most 410 ammo by a bit, and for the first time, I was easily able to load 14 rounds in my ATI hi cap magazines! I will update when I finally get to the range - fingers crossed !

[jb2c]

Any info on the new .410 AR out of the SHOT show? I called ATI today, but of course got voicemail. I did leave a message. But in my experience, I'll never hear anything back from them.

[ranchdude]

So I posted in another thread about the Enfield 410 ball ammo I just purchased ( in tin in crate ). I am hopeful that it will work nicely in the Safir ! The round is shorter than most 410 ammo by a bit, and for the first time, I was easily able to load 14 rounds in my ATI hi cap magazines! I will update when I finally get to the range - fingers crossed !

Nice! Looks like the European 36 caliber stuff I've seen on some of Safir's pages. I bet it will work well. Where did you find it?