Safir Arms T14

[jrive5]

Does anyone know where i can get a t 14 mag or best brand to try and modify to hold 410 shells

[jb2c]

I've been looking for mags as well. They seem impossible to find. I think there would be a market for it, if anyone could successfully mod AR mags to feed the .410 shells in the Safir AR's. But if anyone is doing it, I can't find them. I tried to modify an AR mag myself, but I was working with just a metal GI mag, and the follower I had in it just was not going to work. I haven't tried the Lancer or ACS mags. I'd rather pay a premium and buy already modded mags, if I could find them. Is ANYBODY out there selling them??

[cruzans]

I know it's not polite to tease - but
Back when Safir and ATI were near the end - I emailed ATI a few times about problems with their magazines. They sent me a few free - I later found out it was probably because they knew they were going to clear out of everything ! I also received a list of "good" vs "bad" shells to use. The magazines are very picky on what shells you use - all 410 shells are not the same - they vary greatly in length.

[jb2c]

Dang it!!

Are those Tapco mags? If so, were you successful in modding them?

I have the list of shells that are preferable. And have bought several of them to try. But I'm more concerned about getting more mags!

[cruzans]

Dang it!!

Are those Tapco mags? If so, were you successful in modding them?

I have the list of shells that are preferable. And have bought several of them to try. But I'm more concerned about getting more mags!

They are all marked ATI mags - no modifications needed. Still picky with ammo - but work without any tweeks

[jb2c]

So those are the ATI mags that they stopped selling then. I called ATI a ways back, and they had zero left. They suggested I try some of their retailers, which I did. Nada. I think Cope's had the last ones available, and they had long ago sold out of them. Would love to get a hand on just one of those mags! But you never see any for sale anywhere. So I guess I'll try to mod a Tapco mag instead.

[cruzans]

So those are the ATI mags that they stopped selling then. I called ATI a ways back, and they had zero left. They suggested I try some of their retailers, which I did. Nada. I think Cope's had the last ones available, and they had long ago sold out of them. Would love to get a hand on just one of those mags! But you never see any for sale anywhere. So I guess I'll try to mod a Tapco mag instead.

I know ranchdude who posted here has done a lot of work figuring them out, maybe pm him to see if he has had any more luck ( but he is in the Pocono's so he might be out trying to get $ 175,000 - lol ). I must have just hit it right with ATI - I called / emailed a while back saying I couldn't find any high capacity mags and they sent me a couple, then I said they weren't working right and they sent me another - they were probably getting ready to clear out and figured they'd just give them to me

[ranchdude]

Hello all. It's been quite a while since I've checked in. I haven't finished any prototype yet but I found out that ATI plans to release their own .410 shotgun based on their poly omni hybrid lower. It's supposed to have 5 and 15 round mags for it so they should work in the Safir as well. Let's hope so. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...d-410-shotgun/

Rd out

[jb2c]

Yes, let's hope the ATI's new gun mags will work in the Safir! I still haven't located any ATI mags. I did mod a Tapco, but have not had a chance to get to the range to try it out. It's been raining a lot here. I should get there next week one day, if the weather will cooperate.

Bigger problem though... will a standard BCG work in the Safir T14 upper? I thought it used a standard AR BCG. But when I tried to install one today, it wouldn't fit. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong with putting it in, or if it just isn't supposed to work. Anyone know for sure?

[ranchdude]

No, a standard AR-15 bolt or BCG will not fit into the Safir upper for several reasons. First and foremost the Safir .410 bolt and barrel extension is a 2 lug design and is actuated by a piston and a sleeve type rod so it is not even close to a AR BCG. A standard AR BCG is direct impingement and requires a gas tube to operate which the Safir upper does not have. Therefore the Safir BCG has a modified key which doesn't engage a gas tube and only serves to keep the bolt carrier from rotating. The Safir bolt also has specific contact flats milled onto extentions of the carrier out past the bolt for the piston sleeve to contact. (Which is the main reason it is only a 2 lug bolt) Although the Safir upper is very close in many respects to a standard AR upper it is not a mil spec upper and I would not recommend using it for anything other than the Safir BCG.. The pressures involved in firing a .410 shell pale in comparison to the pressures created by a .223 or 5.56 shell. And although that pressure is contained within the barrel and extention this upper was not to my knowledge designed for a barrel chambered in anything but .410 (aka 36 gauge in Europe). Also the Safir bolt carrier has a slot cut into the bottom for the ejector lever (attached to the bottom side of the upper) to engage the ejector which a standard AR BCG does not have. Without this slot a standard AR BCG would collide with this lever.

I am currently modifying a standard Colt AR upper for use with the Safir barrel and BCG. There are minor differences which I have already documented in this thread which have to be changed and/or modified in order to do this. By doing this I would then be able to safely swap barrels and BCG and use the upper for other standard AR calibers and it will also be 922r compliant with a foreign part count of less than ten parts making it legal for use with high capacity magazines in states that allow them. Using the high capacity mags in a stock Safir T-14 makes it 922r non-compliant and federally illegal to own. I suspect this is the primary reason Safir stopped importing this weapon into the US because it was only 922r compliant with the 5 round magazine. However if ATI uses US made magazines in their new offering and those magazines will work in a T-14 then that alone would reduce the foreign part count by three because under 922r the BATF counts the mag body, follower and end plate as 3 separate pieces. That means you could still have 10 other foreign parts and still be compliant and therefore able to use high capacity mags. So the possibility of being able to use these new ATI mags is a bigger deal than most people who own the T-14 are aware of.