Obrez...Legal?

[stringplucker]

My dad has had it for as long as I can remember, but he hasn't had a bolt in it ever, that I know of. It's an item he brought home with him during his time in the military. He didn't make it.

He passed away 2 years ago, and my brothers and I inherited his collection of rifles, handguns, and other weapons.

Is it legal to own the Obrez? It's actually a cut down Mosin. I know the BATF says once a rifle, always a rifle, and that there are laws concerning the length of a rifle...but this thing is different, especially since it began it's life and was converted in a foreign land.

[knight0334]

I doubt where it was cut down matters because "machineguns" that were made elsewhere are still machineguns when they are made into semi-auto's to the ATF even if the conversion took place prior to entry.

More than likely that Obrez is contraband and possession is a felony. ...unless your father did the paperwork and you all don't know about it - which the heir would still need to do a proper transfer from the estate(non-taxable).

[XD.40]

I doubt where it was cut down matters because "machineguns" that were made elsewhere are still machineguns when they are made into semi-auto's to the ATF even if the conversion took place prior to entry.

More than likely that Obrez is contraband and possession is a felony. ...unless your father did the paperwork and you all don't know about it - which the heir would still need to do a proper transfer from the estate(non-taxable).

With the age and all it could be considered a C&R IMHO..

EDIT; How can a firearm be registered without a serial #? I highly doubt that his Obrez has one.

[XD.40]

My dad has had it for as long as I can remember, but he hasn't had a bolt in it ever, that I know of. It's an item he brought home with him during his time in the military. He didn't make it.

He passed away 2 years ago, and my brothers and I inherited his collection of rifles, handguns, and other weapons.

Is it legal to own the Obrez? I's actually a cut down Mosin. I know the BATF says once a rifle, always a rifle, and that there are laws concerning the length of a rifle...but this thing is different, especially since it began it's life and was converted in a foreign land.

Any idea as to what year he may have procured this thing?

[stringplucker]

Any idea as to what year he may have procured this thing?

It was before I was born...He rotated out of Vietnam in 1969.

[ungawa]

I doubt where it was cut down matters because "machineguns" that were made elsewhere are still machineguns when they are made into semi-auto's to the ATF even if the conversion took place prior to entry.

Bolt action machinegun?

If it was originally made as a pistol at the factory, wouldn't it just be a pistol? Or does this have a full stock on it (SBR)?

[stringplucker]

Bolt action machinegun?

If it was originally made as a pistol at the factory, wouldn't it just be a pistol? Or does this have a full stock on it (SBR)?

I haven't seen this firearm in about 25 years, but mom said it's still in the safe. My memory tells me it's a SBR, with a barrel that is roughly 6" in length off of the receiver.

Like I said, there isn't a bolt for it, and dad rarely had it out, and didn't talk about it much.

I don't plan on ever firing it, so putting a bolt in it won't happen. I'm not even sure if the receiver has been de-activated.

If it's still in firing condition, if a bolt is present, what does the law say about owning it? If the law says no, then it will be put up in the safe-deposit box and forgotten about. If the law says I'm clear, it will go in my safe and forgotten about, never to be fired.

[CHEMICAL]

I haven't seen this firearm in about 25 years, but mom said it's still in the safe. My memory tells me it's a SBR, with a barrel that is roughly 4" in length off of the receiver.

Like I said, there isn't a bolt for it, and dad rarely had it out, and didn't talk about it much.

Bet he had a good reason for that.

I don't plan on ever firing it, so putting a bolt in it won't happen. I'm not even sure if the receiver has been de-activated.

If it's still in firing condition, if a bolt is present, what does the law say about owning it? If the law says no, then it will be put up in the safe-deposit box and forgotten about. If the law says I'm clear, it will go in my safe and forgotten about, never to be fired.

Don't worry, they're already on their way.

[oldgun]

I believe the gun must have started life as a pistol to be legal to own without a tax stamp or Class 3 license. If it started life as a rifle and was cut down it would be considered a SBR. The wrinkle is does the assholes at BATFE consider a foreign gun that started life as a pistol/rifle hybrid in a foreign country a pistol or a SBR. Since it might be up in the air you can bet they'll go with the SBR definition.

For example, the new Winchester Mare's leg can be bought and sold and new ones are made from Puma and Rossi I believe. It is just treated like a pistol instead of a rifle for the purposes of BATFE and falls under this pistol category as they never started life as a rifle. However, take an old Winchester 94 and do the exact same conversion to it by cutting down the barrel and buttstock and it's considered a SBR needing a tax stamp to legally buy, sell and own. Stupid..

If I were you I'd just leave it be and not try and find out if it is legal or not. It's not like anyone is going to be looking into the safe but you and those you trust anyway.

Winchester Mare's leg:


Another example of a legal pistol is the Bushmaster Carbon 15. Again, just like a SBR without a buttstock but it falls in this weird pistol category.

[knight0334]

Bolt action machinegun?

If it was originally made as a pistol at the factory, wouldn't it just be a pistol? Or does this have a full stock on it (SBR)?

The machinegun example is in reference to the ATF's viewpoint on original build status and location. No matter where the gun was made and converted, the original status is what applies there after. Instead of machineguns, you replace it with SBR and use the rifle versus handgun comparison instead of full-auto versus semi-auto.

I don't think Mosins were ever made as handguns by the factory. If there were some, they had to be in very limited quantities. The odds are, the gun in question is a cut down Mosin rifle which if you apply the general ATF rule on original build state - it would be a SBR.