LEO encounter script, first draft? Bad idea in general? Feedback welcome.

[yeager484]

Haters gonna hate, I guess. This is just something I thought might be a good idea.

IANAL

So negative police encounters generally all start the same way. Whether it's an outing at a restauraunt, walking down the street, gas stations, etc. They don't however all have the same middle and end. This is an idea (hopefully not a poor one) on how to make those middles and endings more consistent.

I've read a lot, I've watched a lot of videos and I know many people here are more knowledgeable regarding the law. I'm looking for any advice, from improvements, to just scrapping the whole idea. Just because you read something and even if you thoroughly understand it doesn't always mean you know what to say. That's what I'm attempting to do here.

What I also know is that I try to be a very prepared and educated person, and I like to help others to become as prepared and educated. Hopefully this comes across in that positive light.





(script, not an actual encounter)

Cop: Hey you, with the gun. Stop right there for me.
(Continues to say whatever he wants to say.. "Why do you have that gun?" "Are you allowed to have that gun" "You can't have guns here" (we're assuming these are all LEGAL locations by the way), etc.

Lawful Citizen: Am I free to leave?

Cop: No I need to ask you some questions.

Lawful Citizen: So I'm being detained?

Cop: I need to ask you some questions. I need your identification.

Lawful Citizen: My name is <insert YOUR name>.

Cop: I need your identification.

Lawful Citizen: Do you have reasonable and articulable suspicion to detain me?

Cop: Yes. Present your identification.

Lawful Citizen: Can you please articulate your suspicions?

Cop: Present your identification.

Lawful Citizen: Pennsylvania law only requires I show you any license while I'm involved in an act that requires licensing, such as driving a car or concealing a firearm. I am not participating in any such act. Am I free to leave or am I being detained? NOTE: During SoE we have to identify


Where would this go wrong?


I'm (like most people) a creature of habit with many things. I think being prepared for these encounters is important. I've read just about every thread I found regarding LEO encounters as well as CC/OC laws, and I think having some set "script" to stick to would benefit people. It would help people not lose their cool or composure in these LEO encounters.



TL;DR: Should there be a uniform "script" when interacting with LEO's while open carrying? At least a guideline? Here's a contribution to starting it.

Edit: clarified as "negative" police encounters
Edit2: clarified that clearly we have to show LCTF when carrying in SoE, thanks Remington788.

[Remington788]

#1, we are in a state of emergency in PA so you must have an LTCF to open carry.
#2, you come off as an activist a-hole towards the officer. Seems to me you are trying to provoke him, not to diffuse the situation. It is a 2-way street.

[yeager484]

#1, we are in a state of emergency in PA so you must have an LTCF to open carry.
#2, you come off as an activist a-hole towards the officer. Seems to me you are trying to provoke him, not to diffuse the situation. It is a 2-way street.

1: SoE is put aside.. as it's really not relevant (I said lawfully carrying, carrying without LTCF in SoE is not lawful)

2: Not to discredit your input, but I'm on the side of the fence that encourages standing up for the rights we have. I am an activist for my rights, the officers opinion that I'm an ass hole is directly correlated to his lack of knowledge and his being judgmental of me. His opinion is not a legal matter.

[yeager484]

I was also under the impression when we give up our rights, they get taken away.

I'm not approaching this from an ass hole activist standpoint. It's from a "this is not legal why are you doing it" standpoint. I tried to use as much prose as possible in my initial post to get the positive across.

[Preble Pro]

#1, we are in a state of emergency in PA so you must have an LTCF to open carry.
#2, you come off as an activist a-hole towards the officer. Seems to me you are trying to provoke him, not to diffuse the situation. It is a 2-way street.

If you ask me, in the above fictional encounter, the LEO is coming off as the asshat. The cop knows full well that the OC'er is well within his rights to do what he is doing. It is the cop who is trying to provoke the guy into doing something that WILL give him reasonable suspicion. You have no duty to talk to a cop, especially when you have done nothing wrong.

If the LEO had started the conversation with a little more tact, I might be inclined to give a more friendly reply. But if the tone and content of his initial statement is that of some superior being, as the OP presented, my reaction would have been very close to what was written.

[Remington788]

If you ask me, in the above fictional encounter, the LEO is coming off as the asshat. .

Agree. The cop is provoking and you may be playing right into his hand.

[yeager484]

Agree. The cop is provoking and you may be playing right into his hand.

That's what I'm hoping to avoid.

[vavulaka]

Let me give it a shot. Maybe try and avoid sounding confrontational or provocative.

LEO: "You with the gun! Stop"
Me: "What can I do for you officer?"
LEO: "You can't wear your gun like that! Let me see some ID!"
Me: "I am doing something illegal?"
LEO: "You can't open carry a gun like that! Only police can do that!!"
Me: "Sir, PA is an open carry state. I can carry my gun this way"
LEO: "I need to see some ID!"
Me: "Why?"
LEO: "Because I don't know who you are! How do I know that you're not a felon?"
Me: "Sir I have not broken any laws, you have no reasonable suspicion to detain me. I am going to be on my way now."


At this point. I'd just stop talking and walk away. If the officer decides to detain/arrest me. He's welcome to do that - but he will surely have a lawsuit coming his way.

I think it's unproductive to try and reason with an ignorant cop; it's a losing battle. Remain calm, collected, polite, professional and courteous. I'm often reminded of what happened to Mark Fiorino - he remained calm and played along with the ignorant cop. The encounter ended up making some difference in the OC community. PPD officers got new training about OC laws, gun owners received good publicity and Mark got a nice little settlement for his troubles (which I'm totally fine with).

Just my personal opinion.

[yeager484]

The only reason I've thought using any of the terms detained, reasonable and articulable were to make it clear I knew my stuff.

I'd hate to catch a taser in my ass by just walking away.

I do agree it should be as little confrontational as possible.

Suppose the officer isn't thrilled about you walking away, at that time maybe some of my sample would be more appropriate?


I've been screwed over by cops before..multiple times (and while not carrying a gun)...that's probably a topic for a whole different thread.

I just don't want it to happen again on the grounds of my lack of knowledge or preparedness.

[Daycrawler]

Where would this go wrong?

I would say, about the time you get face planted into the Hood of his Squad car!