Can anyone ID this carbine?

[87th PVI]

No manufacturer inscribed
there is a +1 & a series of numbers stamped under forestock on the barrel & another series on the frame under the butstock, I'm assuming that is the serial number.

Has old tacksfor decoration like an old indian gun, but not sure if someone put those in to make it look like an indian gun or what...

[39flathead]

Edit:
Pa Rifleman appears to be correct.

I know I have seen an Italian copy marked as a Sharps conversion that looked like that, but it does appear to be a Remmy.

[PA Rifleman]

Remington Rolling Block, not sure about the specific model.

Add: looks like a model M1869...if you don't know the chamber size, it might be necessary to get a chamber casting to ID the correct ammunition size.

Here's another resource:

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/

The tacks in the stock hint that it might have a history with native Americans. I see what looks like a seam or old buttstock repair in your bottom photo -- a closeup photo would help.

Did you notice the wrist repair, and the vise-jaw marks in the receiver?

[87th PVI]

That is what it is being offered for sale as, but I couldn't find any manufactures marks so I wanted to do a little checking on it first.

[39flathead]

That is what it is being offered for sale as, but I couldn't find any manufactures marks so I wanted to do a little checking on it first.

The Remington patent dates should be on the tang, use a magnifying glass if need be or do a rubbing and see if anything turns up.

There were many of these made for foreign countries like Argentina and Egypt.
I'd bet they were copied in third world ratholes like Afghanistan as well.

[PA Rifleman]

Thanks for posting really clear pics, it makes ID a *lot* easier. That rolling block will make a heck of a wall hanger, bonus points if it's still operational.

Looks like the wood was refinished, which makes me wonder whether the tacks were added at a later date.

Provenance will determine whether it's an old gun, or a serious piece of Americana.

[87th PVI]

The values are all over the place on them & range from $160-$3,000...
The price sounded fair at the time, but now I'm wondering if the price is good deal or not... It's on hold for me to research so I can still back out if I want.

The guy was priced right on the nose with a couple other guns there that I did know what they are worth, so I'm thinking he's got a fair price on it, but what would you guys pay if you saw it for sale, or ask for it if it were your gun?

[Ecclectic Collector]

PA Rifleman pegged the most likely model. Ditto, many were made in foreign countries in weird calibers ranging from .43 Egyptian, to 12.7mm Norwegian, 11.7 mm Dane, .45 Spanish Reformado, and so on.

There is one (remote) possibility that this could be one of the rare American made carbines. Flaydermans Guide to Antique American Firearms says that a few carbines were made up for trials by Springfield Armory and were also bought by state militia units.

Look at the markings. Is it Remington made with patents on it? If so, what is the latest date? Does it have an Eagle head proof on the action anywhere?

Cock the rear hammer and open the action. Then close close the action as if you've just loaded it. If the hammer falls to half cock, you have a gun made for the US military and it would be rare if it isn't a cut down. The Springfield Armory made rolling blocks tested for trials circa 1868-70, and Remington made guns for the US state forces used a "safe" action that automatically went to half cock upon being loaded. This allows for the safe carrying of the gun with a cartridge in the chamber.

Two other options is that this is a very early rimfire gun. If the firing pin is off center, you know what you've got there and if so it would most likely be in .46 caliber. Also Whitney made guns that were almost exact copies of the Remington and many of these were sold to Mexico. A Whitney would be marked with Whitney Arms. I think that the Mexican contract guns had a Mexican Eagle and Snake stamped too, but I might be off on this.

[Brick]

What I see looks for all the world like a Remington Rolling Block. Though I suppose it could be a copy of one. To say the very least it is a rolling block action.

[bob308]

it is a put together usung a 69 action. it has the sliding ejector. i saw the vise jaw marks too. that would put me off for anything but rebuilding.
it is not a carbine action.