Center Valley Promenade Shops Don't allow guns now, but is their policy legal?

[Ten*K]

People, people, PEOPLE! You are all clearly over-reacting. This sign was placed there to protect YOU from gun toting maniacs. Malls, schools, churches and playgrounds have all be made safe from Tea Party Extremists like : Page, Holmes, Stawik, Goh, Loughner, Hasan, Wong, Stewart, Thornton, Hawkins, Cho, Talovia, San Marco, Weiss, Ratzmann, and .........

See how safe we are?

[rxer311]

13. Any weapons such as guns, knives, swords, laser pointers, and any other items that can harm the customer will be confiscated and given to the proper authorities.

Since my gun will never harm another customer (only a criminal intending harm to myself or my family), does that mean that I CAN carry it?

[Ten*K]

Don't you think that it is wrong to violate the property owner's wishes and therefore, his rights? You use the retail services based on your agreement to abide by the property owner's rules.

Based on your logic, it is fine to steal as long as you don't get caught. I am not accusing you of stealing, but rather, using theft as another example of your logic which says it is okay to use his property anyway, just don't get caught breaking the rules.

Your logic also says we need only respect one another in the courtroom. I reject that notion.

The difference is natural right vs. societal rules. Any suspensions to the natural right of self preservation is contemptible. In a lawful and just world, these rules wouldn't be considered. But the world is full of people. And a lot of them are smacktards. So you get signs like these which abrogate the law in the name of imagined security.

[knight0334]

The difference is natural right vs. societal rules. Any suspensions to the natural right of self preservation is contemptible. In a lawful and just world, these rules wouldn't be considered. But the world is full of people. And a lot of them are smacktards. So you get signs like these which abrogate the law in the name of imagined security.

The right to self defense/preservation is based on the same right as setting conditions to access - property rights.

Property rights are the ultimate right. Your right to life, to keep/bear arms, own possessions, etc are all based on that natural right that you speak of.

The only property rights that you retain without subjugation while on another person's real estate is your right to life, which can be taken away too under certain conditions, and your sexual virtue. Then there are a few classes of people that cannot be prejudiced against because of their attributes. For all other reasons or issues - a property owner can set whatever condition he/she desires if you want to have license or privilege to be on the property. You are under no obligation to be on someone else's land, and can leave at anytime.

The moral of the story: If you don't like the rules the property owner places upon entry - don't go there. Your property right to keep and bear doesn't trump his property right to manage his kingdom.

[knight0334]

No they can't that would be a violation of ADA and grounds for a hefty fine/lawsuit

LOL - well maybe for disabled folks. It could still be applied for those fit enough to attempt such actions.

[PennsyPlinker]

I just couldn't leave well enough alone. I had to send them an email... It read:

To whomever it may concern,

As a long time patron of your shops, I am displeased to inform you that I will no longer be spending my money in your establishment. With the enactment of #13 in your Code of Conduct, I, as a law biding and licensed gun owner and carrier, do not feel safe at your establishment.*

As soon as the criminals of this world start following the rules of such signs or you remove this from your code of conduct, I will return.

Thank you,
Jason Lambert
Safe gun owner for 28 years.

You probably should have - left well enough alone that is. Seeing that you live close to 300 miles away, I don't think it would really convince anyone who would take the time to see who you are and where you live. Activism is great, but this just makes gun owners look stupid. Of course, if you are driving that 300 miles to shop here, please, let me know that I am wrong.

[Ten*K]

The right to self defense/preservation is based on the same right as setting conditions to access - property rights.

Property rights are the ultimate right. Your right to life, to keep/bear arms, own possessions, etc are all based on that natural right that you speak of.

The only property rights that you retain without subjugation while on another person's real estate is your right to life, which can be taken away too under certain conditions, and your sexual virtue. Then there are a few classes of people that cannot be prejudiced against because of their attributes. For all other reasons or issues - a property owner can set whatever condition he/she desires if you want to have license or privilege to be on the property. You are under no obligation to be on someone else's land, and can leave at anytime.

The moral of the story: If you don't like the rules the property owner places upon entry - don't go there. Your property right to keep and bear doesn't trump his property right to manage his kingdom.

Someone's home property could certainly discriminate against visitors, but malls and the like are generally accessible to the public. So if I choose to disallow from someone from my property because they are a flaming liberal, fine. But if a mall or a park or restaraunt did so they would be sued. How is it different for the second amendment?

[Tetelestai]

People, people, PEOPLE! You are all clearly over-reacting. This sign was placed there to protect YOU from gun toting maniacs. Malls, schools, churches and playgrounds have all be made safe from Tea Party Extremists like : Page, Holmes, Stawik, Goh, Loughner, Hasan, Wong, Stewart, Thornton, Hawkins, Cho, Talovia, San Marco, Weiss, Ratzmann, and .........

See how safe we are?

Nope -- this sign and those like it are there to cover the management in case someone starts shooting. They get to claim that they took reasonable precaution to "stop" such an act because they told people not to bring guns into their establishment.

I always wonder if gun owners should be more interested in changing the minds of insurance companies.

[HomeBrewer]

I never saw that sign. We go to the Rave, frequently, and I sent their corporate headquarters in Texas an email asking what their company policy is.

Best not be "whatever the Promenades policy is."

[jerryg]

They way I look at it Bad Guys carry weapons. I carry a pistol or revolver for self defense.