Subsonic 22 ammo review

[aubie515]

I am new to the class 3 game too, so no worries on the questions. You need to pay the $200 tax stamp each time you buy something that requires the stamp. I am probably going to buy another Gem Tech for my .308, so that will require another $200 stamp.

For further class III questions...I'd recommend going to the NFA forum on this site and asking.

JayBell...he's a mod on subguns and knows a lot in general

John C

DanP

[JayBell]

the NFA process is not a licensing or permit process per se.

It's paying a federal excise tax to own a restricted and controlled class of weapon.
the tax is a one time payment to the federal Govt, and all tax records are confidential, ATF does not, and cannot release ownership info without a criminal case, or court order....the info is similar to your IRS 1040. this ONLY counts for the Feds!

most folks dont have the patience to go thru the process, or thier local CLEO wont sign, etc....I'll touch more on this later.

tax fees are on a set scale, most have been set since 1934 at one rate, others have been changed over the years to add or remove certain weapon classes.

the one time TRANSFER (from dealer to buyer in state, or private seller to buyer in state) tax of $200 is for:
Machineguns
Silencers/Suppressors
Short barrel Shotguns
Short Barrel Rifles
Destructive devices

a one time transfer tax of $5 is for all AOWs "Any other Weapons" which includes smoothbore pistols, cane guns, wallet holsters, briefcase guns, gatdget guns, pen guns, etc

to MAKE any NFA firearm is $200 tax. you can make all NFA firearms listed above except machineguns.


heres how it actually works, the process.

might want to start with asking around to local dealers and other shooters that have this stuff if your local Chief of Police( CLEO- chief law enforcement officer) will sign the forms to get the item you want.
Some will, many will not, and its totally up to the CLEO on whether he wants to sign. its voluntary, and they cannot be sued or forced into signing.
Many CLEOs will not sign for an item due to an unfounded fear of being sued if you commit a crime with the item. Some have, and there is Federal Caselaw that absolves them of this issue.
if your local CLEO wont sign, you have other options.
1. Local Sheriff
2. Local Judge that presides in Felony cases (a JP does not count)
3. Local District Attorney
4. incorporation. make a corporation where the owner is the corp, not you, thus no signatures(this does have its drawbacks, but not much)


you find a GOOD TRUSTED dealer that has the item you want to buy.
Buy it, and pay the man.
you have to do this to start the process.
if you buy from an out of state dealer or manufacturer, they must transfer the item to a dealer in your state, this can add a month or more to the transaction.
As pointed out by Aubie, the ATF NFA branch is now located in West Virginia, and now does really fast transfers( 1-2 month average), dont ask me about my 13 month+ transfer from the old idiots in DC

your dealer will provide you with the filled out paperwork you need to have your CLEO sign
this will consist of :
2 form 4s (aka ATF form 5320.4)
2 FBI FD-258 fingerprint cards with the WV/ATF Firearms/Explo info on them
1 Certificate of Compliance (you certify you are a citizen and sign it)

you will need to supply:
2 passport size photos, and affix them to the back of each form 4
get the fingerprints taken and printed on the supplied cards
get the CLEO to sign the back of each form. All hes doing is certifying that the item you want is legal in his jurisdiction, and he has no info you will commit a crime with it.
1 PERSONAL CHECK made out to BATFE- Dept of the treasury for $200. i say personal check so you can TRACK that your transfer check has been cashed.
usually 7-14 days after its been cashed your application will be in the system bing worked on.

After all this is filled out *I* make a photocopy of the completed and signed forms(in case they get lost/destroyed on way to ATF and I ca get the CLEO to sign again), and return them to my dealer, or if he prefers, send direct to the ATF, registered mail, delivery confirmation.
if the papers get lost or destroyed , you gotta start over with new paperwork, so pay the extra bucks.

now wait.
wait.
wait some more
wait impatiently.
Complain to everyone on the boards that its been 30 days and nothing yet.
Do this again every week until your dealer calls you and says the paperwork is back

go to your dealer, fill out the 4473, go thru the NICS( yeah, you might have committed a crime on the way over to the dealer...most likely reckless driving and speeding:-)
get your stuff.
go have fun with it.
brag to everyone on the board that it was no big deal, and that you are now the kewlest thing EVAR

you have ONE COPY of the paperwork given to you, it will have a embossed printed stamp on it in the value of your transfer, with the serial # of your item across it to "cancel it" like a postage stamp.
this is your registration paperwork.

NEVER. and i cannot say this enough NEVER CARRY THE ORIGINAL. Put it in a safety deposit box or firesafe,, after making copies.
Carry a copy of the paperwork with the item you bought, this is your proof of registration and affirmative defense against prosecution.
I carry a binder with copies of all my paperwork in waterproof sleeves.

ALL NFA IN PENNSYLVANIA IS ILLEGAL....unless registered under the NFA act of 34, so if a cop asks for paperwork to prove the item is yours, just show it, its no hassle, and dont be a dick...its the difference between spending the afternoon in the lockup and maybe having your gun abused by some ignorant lawdog, or simply prove its yours legally and continue yer business.

further, you cannot LEND or BORROW NFA items to ANYONE they are not registered to.
they can use the item with you there, but you cant hand your buddy the silencer to play with for the weekend, thats illegal.
Also, keep the items secure and limit access if you have other people living with you.

so thats pretty much it...NFA is fun and legal, but you have to jump thru the hoops to get it, most give up when they read this, dont, the stuff is cool, and worth it in my option.

I have multiple transfers under my belt, some were fast, most were horribly slow, as the idiot GS whatevers in DC didn't care if they ever got approved or not.
the new WV folks are amazingly fast, folks ar reporting undr 2 mo transfers, most often under 1 month.

hope this helps

PS. oh yeah...to kill the dumbass intarwebs rumor mill.....your 4th amendment rights are secure in owning NFA, the ATF cant search your house with no search warrant because you own NFA, they cant inspect for secure storage, theres no fee every year, and no "license" unless you want to buy and sell guns as a dealer:-)

[JayBell]

BTW Aubie....

the barrel on your MKIII is short enough that most regular high velocity 22lr (not CCI stingers and "hyper velocity stuff) will be subsonic.

Try the cheap Federal bulk pack from Walmart, 550 rds loose packed, its like $8 a brick.

sounds great, and cheaper.

also, you may find that SOME of the subsonic loads will go trans-sonic in a rifle length barrel, Remington Subsonic is noted for this...sometimes its cracky, sometimes its quiet.

Also, I recommend getting a nice bolt action 22 to put the can on, you will be shocked at the lack of noise due to no action cycling...

I use PMC moderator in my bolt action 22s, is lots quieter than even a BB gun.

I have a nice Nikon Scope on this now, but you get the picture, Ruger M77/22 Stainless all weather version, with a bowers CAC-22 all Stainless can

[aubie515]

Jay,

I did hear people say that if you shoot regular ammo through a pistol w/ suppressor that it should be subsonic. I just also heard good things about the CCI subsonic, so I bought a case of it.

I will probably look to buying a bolt action 22 next year...too much going on right now.

[Mark]

Yeah. I shot CCI sub's in my back yard i'll show you what my backstop is when i get home from school. Their not all that accruate but they are fun to plink around/kill squearls with in the back yard.

[richbug]

I shoot Aguila SE's standard velocity ammo in 40 grain bullet weight for my match ammo. In a 30 year old Ruger standard it will shoot 1" groups at 50 yards.

I have never seen the 30 grain version, will have to watch out for it.

In a rifle the standard velocity SE ammo is still very quiet, and my first choice for hunting as it doesn't upset the squirrels too bad if you miss on the first shot.

[aubie515]

The gunsmith that has my 10/22 said he shipped it, so I am hoping I get it tomorrow. I want to test it out with the OutbackII. I will probably buy a marlin or savage bolt action...so I can get the most out of my suppressor.

I will probably be ordering a case of 5k of the Aguila SE very soon. At that point...I should have enough 22 ammo.