NFA Gun Trusts

[Mizzou]

I'm an attorney in Missouri, and I stumbled across this forum doing some internet research after a client came in this morning and asked if I would write him a gun trust to buy a suppressor. He and his brother in law want to both use the suppressor, but "heard" that they can do a single registration that allows both of them to use it if they bought it in a joint trust.

I do a lot of estate planning and write a lot of trusts, but I wanted to research what types of firearms specific language goes into the typical NFA trust. I'm an avid hunter, but I've never personally dealt with buying or owning anything more than standard sporting firearms and handguns. This is kind of new territory for me.

I found a lot of samples online, including some linked on this site, and for the most part, the trusts were pretty atrocious. They look like trust forms that were created 20 or 30 years ago with lots of holes in them. Very few of them have any firearms specific language.

Unless I get comfortable with the subject matter, I'm inclined to tell this client to go buy one of these horrible online trusts and avoid any liability on my part. I assume that a good gun trust would have language in it that identifies who can use the trust property. I assume you would have two classes of beneficiaries - a set of lifetime beneficiaries who can use the trust property (typically would be the grantors), and a set of at-death beneficiaries who receive the trust property on the death of the grantors.

Beyond that I'm not familiar enough with the subject matter to have an idea of what other types of provisions are needed. Any other attorneys on the board that want to give a fellow lawyer some free advice?

I'm inclined to believe that forming a simple LLC would be a better plan. You can do a single-member LLC that is disregarded for tax purposes by the IRS, and probably get all the benefits of a NFA trust. However, the client and his brother in law want to jointly own the suppressor, so an LLC would have to be a multi-member entity and be required to file a tax return.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Based on the sample forms I'm finding online, most of these trusts are low-budget boilerplate forms. Is this typical?

[bigdawgbeav]

Talk to GunLawyer001... he's another one of you scum-sucking lawyer parasites.

BTW: only kidding, I have no problems with lawyers. Seriously, Phil knows his stuff when it comes to gun law. I have his number on speed dial (just in case)

[bac0nfat]

Unless I get comfortable with the subject matter, I'm inclined to tell this client to go buy one of these horrible online trusts and avoid any liability on my part.

How does advising your client to use a "horrible online trust" avoid any liability? You may not be the person writing it, but you were the one who advised him to use it.

My advice is to refer your client to a knowledgeable gun lawyer. Someone who not only specializes in gun law, but with NFA law in particular.

[Mizzou]

How does advising your client to use a "horrible online trust" avoid any liability? You may not be the person writing it, but you were the one who advised him to use it.

Unless I offer a legal opinion to him that the online trust mills generate valid, workable, documents, I don't have legal liability for someone else's legal work.

Your suggestion to find a competent NFA attorney is obviously the best solution. The only problem is that I'm having a hard time locating one for him that isn't a 4 hour drive away.

[bac0nfat]

Unless I offer a legal opinion to him that the online trust mills generate valid, workable, documents, I don't have legal liability for someone else's legal work.

Your suggestion to find a competent NFA attorney is obviously the best solution. The only problem is that I'm having a hard time locating one for him that isn't a 4 hour drive away.

I had my trust drafted by a lawyer who specializes in NFA law, without ever seeing him in person. Everything was done over the phone and through the mail. His name is Joshua Prince and here is his contact info:

http://www.princelaw.com/Bio/JoshuaPrince.asp

[Mizzou]

I had my trust drafted by a lawyer who specializes in NFA law, without ever seeing him in person. Everything was done over the phone and through the mail. His name is Joshua Prince and here is his contact info:

http://www.princelaw.com/Bio/JoshuaPrince.asp

Unless he's licensed in Missouri, he can't draft a Missouri trust without having issues with the unauthorized practice of law in the state.

[bigdawgbeav]

Unless he's licensed in Missouri, he can't draft a Missouri trust without having issues with the unauthorized practice of law in the state.

I think Bac0n was mentioning it as a reference for assistance if that is what you were looking for. I'm guessing there is some professional courtesy in the field of law. Or if, for legal reasons, he can't help then he could probably point you in the right direction.

[bac0nfat]

Unless he's licensed in Missouri, he can't draft a Missouri trust without having issues with the unauthorized practice of law in the state.

Ahh, I didn't see that you are in Missouri. Well as Bigdawgbeav pointed out, you might be able to get some free advice or maybe a referral from Joshua, who knows.

[JayBell]

as an owner of multiple NFA items, all on personal ownership forms, I myself would definitely go LLC/Corp over a trust, any day of the week.

people have placed untold millions worth of NFA items in crappy trusts from crappy office software, or crappy "gun type trust lawyers networks" that claim to specialize in NFA trusts...well, the gov't has lawyers that break trusts all day all week, all year, you goof that trust up, and

my lawyer, Gunlawyer001, dislikes em, and he'll tell ya why.

if at all possible, go CLEO first(this may be gone soon...maybe, hoping) then LLC, and only final last case do you go trust... I dont really care if you dd it and it worked for you... your trust just hasn't been dissolved yet by the govt for being done incorrectly is all.

[csmith]

Under the advice of GL I went the corporation route. Not sure what LLC fees and filing requirements are like in Missouri but here in PA it is pretty straightforward and maintenance free once you get through the initial setup.