Question about classified listings

[Hivelocity]

Why do so many members feel the need for FTF and FFL meetings or LTCF proof when selling firearms. I understand long gun FTF sales and hand gun transfers. I notice this mainly from the eastern PA guys and was wondering how many sells they don't make because of this.

[Helter]

Why do so many members feel the need for FTF and FFL meetings or LTCF proof when selling firearms. I understand long gun FTF sales and hand gun transfers. I notice this mainly from the eastern PA guys and was wondering how many sells they don't make because of this.

It's the easiest way to cover your ass regarding where the gun finally ends up.

Let's say the gun you sell winds up used in a crime. Will the extra $50 you got for selling to someone who didn't want to show an ltcf be worth the *hours* of legal hassle proving that the gun wasn't yours anymore, and explaining how it was that a convicted felon wound up with your AR/AK?

[Hivelocity]

It's the easiest way to cover your ass regarding where the gun finally ends up.

Let's say the gun you sell winds up used in a crime. Will the extra $50 you got for selling to someone who didn't want to show an ltcf be worth the *hours* of legal hassle proving that the gun wasn't yours anymore, and explaining how it was that a convicted felon wound up with your AR/AK?

1st I don't know where the extra $50.00 came from and 2nd that is what a bill of sales is for in a FTF sale.

[Shodan]

Most probably prefer FTF because they don't want to be bothered with the shipping or in some cases are worried about doing something wrong if they do ship the gun.

[RobW]

Yup, I think it is pretty simple.

a. Shipping a long gun is a pain in the ass. Can't ship a handgun.
b. Somebody dreamed up this "requirement" and now all the cool kids want to see your LTCF.

[renalp]

1st I don't know where the extra $50.00 came from and 2nd that is what a bill of sales is for in a FTF sale.

I believe the $50 comment refers to the cost of an FFL transfer (although it's usually less).

As for the second part, it's completely a matter of the seller's preference. In the (unlikely) event that a gun you sold wound up in the hands of a criminal, would you want your defense to hinge on a piece of paper you printed from the web? If so, that's your choice.

Personally, I'm the kind of guy who does my own car maintenance, electrical work, roofing, tree cutting, and even taxes. But when it comes to selling guns to an unknown buyer, I'll happily call in professional help.

[RobW]

Yup, I think it is pretty simple.

a. Shipping a long gun is a pain in the ass. Can't ship a handgun.
b. Somebody dreamed up this "requirement" and now all the cool kids want to see your LTCF.

[knight0334]

Its a Cover Your Ass thing.

The law say that you cannot transfer/sell/give a gun to someone you know or have reason to believe is a prohibited person. Since we cannot use PICS to do private transfers, demanding a LTCF will help ease one's mind and provide you with something to cover your ass in court.

If you don't like it if someone is demanding a LTCF - go find another ad.

[Helter]

1st I don't know where the extra $50.00 came from and 2nd that is what a bill of sales is for in a FTF sale.

Educated Wild Assed Guess. People who require either an FFL transfer or a LTCF are limiting their potential buyers to people willing to accomodate them, which means that they are presumably getting slightly less than they might have (more specifically, they are artificially limiting the demand for their product while maintaining constant supply, which tends to result in lower prices).
That in conjunction with the transfer cost for those who require an FFL transfer, which runs anywhere from 25-40 in my experience, results in my saying that long term, these sales requirements probably cost sellers around $50 per sale.

As for the bill of sale, that will be helpful but it doesn't show in any way that you made any effort to ensure that your buyer wasn't prohibited. Now, you don't have an obligation to ensure that, but that won't stop a motivated anti-gun DA from making life difficult for you. Showing that you made every effort available to you to ensure that your buyer was not prohibited might not either, but it would make it much harder for them to argue that you were in some way negligent or culpable in whatever happens.

Personally, I don't worry about it. I sell handguns at ffl's, and long guns FTF with very little documentation required. But that's the reasoning, and it's pretty hard to argue against it.

[Remington788]

Why do so many members feel the need for FTF and FFL meetings or LTCF proof when selling firearms. I understand long gun FTF sales and hand gun transfers. I notice this mainly from the eastern PA guys and was wondering how many sells they don't make because of this.

The Face-to-Face requirement seems logical to me as shipping can be a hassle. I have no idea how hard it is to get your gun back from an out of town FFL if something goes wrong with the sale. I bet it would add a bit to the costs too. I bought a used bike rack once and the guy insisted on FTF as shipping would have cost more than the old rack was worth.

Handguns and some other items must go through an FFL or Sheriff and PICS. I think you have no other choice in the matter if you want to stay legal.

You can, as I understand it, sell a long gun to a stranger with few questions asked. Maybe you are required to make sure they are a PA resident, hence looking at a drivers license. I believe you are not allowed to sell to an individual that you know is prohibited from purchasing the gun. Looking at someone's LTCF gives the seller some level of comfort that the person is not prohibited.

Since there is no way of knowing if the persons LTCF is valid, some people will require that even a long gun sale go through an FFL and PICS. This would mainly be for the sellers benefit. It ensures that the buyer is not prohibited from purchasing. It also removes the sellers name from the non-existent registry that is not maintained by the state police and replaces it with the buyers name.