Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Quote Originally Posted by comsubin61 View Post
    We are continuesely asked not to support those business that are not 2A pro, but yet the NRA finds it ok to prohibit, a legaly carrying citizen, to mantain that level of security for which he or she always strive for.

    I am cancelling my membership to the NRA effectively today. I am also thinking of cancelling my attendence to this class since it is sponsored by the NRA.

    I cancell my bank accounts with BoA because of their attitude toward people and guns, I refrain from using restaurants that are anti 2nd, as well as other businesses. It is just fitting that those ,that actualy should be at front of our cause and leading by example, are also excluded by those of us that live our life based of these critterias because they act the same way.
    First off, the class is not sponsored by the NRA. I am certified by the NRA as an instructor. Utah requires me to be an NRA certified instructor in order to be certified by Utah BCI to teach this course. NRA and Utah standards do not permit live ammo in the classroom environment.

    Now, I'll make the assumption that you have never taken a classroom based firearms training class. It is a standard protocol whether, an NRA class, a state run course, etc, that no live ammunition is allowed in the classroom. This is for safety reasons. You are welcome to research the subject. Look at any firearms training company across the country. Check their website, and you will see that no one allows live ammo in a "cold" classroom. Range classes are obviously different. Call any instructor you wish, and ask whether they allow live ammo in the room. There is a difference between "supporting pro-2A" businesses, and not allowing ammo in the classroom during a gun safety class.

    As an instructor, I have to teach with the understanding that someone in the room may be taking this class with absolutely zero knowledge about guns, especially in a state that requires no prior firearms training before issuing a LTCF. The safest course of action is that we prohibit live ammo in the room....for everyone (myself included).

    If you feel that you want to cancel your NRA membership because of a safety rule, that is your choice. If you cannot understand the need for the highest degree of safety in this class and you want to cancel your registration, that is your choice as well.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Glen Mills, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    I'm signed up, thanks for doing this.

  3. #13
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    Sep 2006
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Damn. Picked the one day I'm not available.

    Any plans to do this again later in the year?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Plymouth Meeting, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    First off, the class is not sponsored by the NRA. I am certified by the NRA as an instructor. Utah requires me to be an NRA certified instructor in order to be certified by Utah BCI to teach this course. NRA and Utah standards do not permit live ammo in the classroom environment.

    Now, I'll make the assumption that you have never taken a classroom based firearms training class. It is a standard protocol whether, an NRA class, a state run course, etc, that no live ammunition is allowed in the classroom. This is for safety reasons. You are welcome to research the subject. Look at any firearms training company across the country. Check their website, and you will see that no one allows live ammo in a "cold" classroom. Range classes are obviously different. Call any instructor you wish, and ask whether they allow live ammo in the room. There is a difference between "supporting pro-2A" businesses, and not allowing ammo in the classroom during a gun safety class.

    As an instructor, I have to teach with the understanding that someone in the room may be taking this class with absolutely zero knowledge about guns, especially in a state that requires no prior firearms training before issuing a LTCF. The safest course of action is that we prohibit live ammo in the room....for everyone (myself included).

    If you feel that you want to cancel your NRA membership because of a safety rule, that is your choice. If you cannot understand the need for the highest degree of safety in this class and you want to cancel your registration, that is your choice as well.


    While I can understand your concerns for safety, I cannot agree with it. I would be the first to applaud the no ammo in the classroom if indeed we were going to "play" with the guns, but we are not. If guns were carried in the room they would stay in the holsters just like anywhere else, since they were to be carried for self defense.

    To use the "safety" excuse is just that an excuse.

    Also you are the one that stated that the reason you could not allow guns in the room is because you are an NRA instructor, thus insinuating that the NRA does not allow guns in a traning class, even when guns are not to be used for the training.

    I am a retired navy and believe me when I tell you that I took many many classes, and never had an issue.

    Having said that you are the instructor, therefore the one in charge of the class, so my NRA membership is now cancelled and please also do cancell my registration to your class. I will look forward to a refund in my account. Thank you.
    E FLUCTIBUS IRRUIT IN HOSTEM. AECIDAE TELO IACET LIBATIS.

  5. #15
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    Sep 2011
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    Media, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Signed up. See you there.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Quote Originally Posted by comsubin61 View Post
    While I can understand your concerns for safety, I cannot agree with it. I would be the first to applaud the no ammo in the classroom if indeed we were going to "play" with the guns, but we are not. If guns were carried in the room they would stay in the holsters just like anywhere else, since they were to be carried for self defense.

    To use the "safety" excuse is just that an excuse.

    Also you are the one that stated that the reason you could not allow guns in the room is because you are an NRA instructor, thus insinuating that the NRA does not allow guns in a traning class, even when guns are not to be used for the training.

    I am a retired navy and believe me when I tell you that I took many many classes, and never had an issue.

    Having said that you are the instructor, therefore the one in charge of the class, so my NRA membership is now cancelled and please also do cancell my registration to your class. I will look forward to a refund in my account. Thank you.
    You may not be planning on "playing" with your gun, but others may want to do something with theirs. The concept of people being allowed to bring their guns to class, is so they can take them apart, ask questions, and generally learn about their pistols....so yes, I fully expect some of the guns to be handled during the class, if people want to learn about them. Not one class goes by where someone doesn't walk up to me on a break, and ask me to evaluate their grip, or look at a loose cylinder, or instructions on how to clean it. That's why I inspect every gun that comes into the room.

    A month ago, a Virginia based firearms instructor taught a class for 5 students in a private home. He told the students that no live ammo was allowed. A few minutes into the class, he took a break and left the room. A husband, who lied to the instructor and had a loaded gun, tried to unload it before the instructor returned. He shot himself in the hand, and the bullet then ripped into his wife's leg.....I could site 100 other examples, but isn't one enough?

    The NRA rule that all instructors live by is no live ammo in the room, period. I like my credentials, and my safety, and the safety of my students....for that reason, I play by those rules. You are certainly welcome to take your ball, or in this case your gun, and go home. That is your choice.

    You can send an email with your name to training@proactiveshooters.com, and my assistant will process your refund forthwith. You will have to do this since I cannot match up screen names with registrations.
    Last edited by ProShooter; June 28th, 2012 at 07:59 PM.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Quote Originally Posted by internet troll View Post
    I'm signed up, thanks for doing this.
    My pleasure...thank you for registering!

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Damn. Picked the one day I'm not available.

    Any plans to do this again later in the year?
    I usually come up to PA once a year, at least. We have no other PA classes planned though. This one just kind of popped up because of some requests we had and the fact that I was able to finagle our training calendar a bit....

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    Quote Originally Posted by dartagnan View Post
    Signed up. See you there.
    Thank you! Looking forward to it!

  10. #20
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    Mar 2011
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    mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Thumbs up Re: Utah Concealed Firearm Permit class, King of Prussia, Pa.

    just signed up. look forward to seeing you all there. thanks for your efforts in setting this up.

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