Sig 239 and Fed 9mm (+P+) is it safe?

[skibi]

I picked up recently some Federal 9mm HP (+P+) 115gr. ammo thinking it would make pretty good defensive choice but can't find any reference if it would be safe to shoot it in Sig 239.
Any suggestions?
Thanks...

[rwb1500]

That's funny, I literally thought I might have started this thread...

[Wilson Guy]

I have a Wilson Spec Ops. I used to carry +p+ in the pistol and only occasionally practice with it. At the range, I just used standard FMJ ammunition. According to Wilson, the Spec Ops is rated for +p+ ammo. Well, one time when I came home from using the +p+ I noticed that the extractor was chipped. Wilson fixed the pistol under warranty but that was the end of +p+ ammo for me. I think there are way too many good +p self defense loads available in 9mm these days to try to push the velocity as high as +p+ gives you. No, I am not positive that the +p+ caused the damage. I just know it wasn't there when I started shooting that day.

[Ronin]

The P239 is ok with +P. It can handle +P+, but it will accelerate wear on the gun. If you're just using it for defensive rounds and not regular range work, you should be fine.

Keep in mind, if you shoot +p+ out of your P239 and it does break, Sig will not cover it under warranty if they know that's what you shot.

Personally, I wouldn't shoot any thing hotter than +p.

[Valorius]

I picked up recently some Federal 9mm HP (+P+) 115gr. ammo thinking it would make pretty good defensive choice but can't find any reference if it would be safe to shoot it in Sig 239.
Any suggestions?
Thanks...

Yes, it's safe.

It will accelerate wear, so don't use it for target practice. Just defensive use.

Federal, Winchester, Remington and Speer +P+ is specifically designed and generally marketed as law enforcement (and sometimes LE only) ammo. If it wasn't safe, they would most certainly not issue it to cops. In all the years that the Fed 9BPLE+P+ 9mm round has been in use by LEO, it has gained a very good reputation, and i have never heard any stories of it blowing up cop guns.

The Federal stuff is also very inexpensive, so it's a great choice for zombie stockpiling. A Hi Shok bullet at 1300fps+ will blow a zombie melon to bits. LOL.

My main 9mm load for defensive use is the Speer Gold Dot 115gr+P+ LEO load. Speer lists .82" avg. expansion in gel. o.O

[sigarms229]

Directly from Sig's FAQ

+P Ammo manufactured to SAAMI/CIP/NATO specs is fine to use as a defensive round or for occasional range use. Continual use of this round will make it necessary for more frequent service on the pistol. We do NOT recommend the use of any +P+ round. This may void your warranty.


it is located here.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx


My policy is to fire 200 rds of "carry ammo' before I start carrying it (to make sure it runs ok and is accurate enough) so using that logic, I wouldn't use +p+.

[Valorius]

Again, i'd remind the OP that +P+ is and has been used for decades by police all over the US and it has not gotten a reputation for blowing up guns. It has however gotten a reputation for working extremely well in gunfights.

+P+ basically turns your service length 9mm into the ballistic equivalent of a 3" barreled .357 magnum revolver.

That is not a bad thing IMO.

The side of my Speer box states the ammo is loaded 20% hotter than SAAMI specs for 9mm, so i guess that'd put the stuff at about 42,000psi. Definitely hot.

I personally do not think there is any need to fire 200 of any kind of a hollowpoint through a modern Sig or other autoloader to deem it fit for use. One box seems quite sufficient. If you have a finicky 1911, 200rds might be a good idea though.

[sigarms229]

One box seems quite sufficient.

You might feel one box is sufficient but how much practical training can you really do with one 20 or 50rd box? You can't. You need to practice with what you are going to use for defense. I'm not saying it needs to be thousands of rounds but EVERY round shoots different.

And unless his Sig is an older gun ( like 5 years old or more), I'd run 1000rds though it without a hicup before I'd rely on it. Sig's quality has dropped significantly over the past 5 years, and this is coming from a huge sig fan.

Zombie stockpiling? Come back to reality man. That's seriously laughable.

[Steve_NEPhila]

+P and +P+ is all marketing sizzle. Back in the old days (more than 8-10 years ago) bullet design (as in the projectile) was less advanced than it is today. Additional velocity was needed to make the expansion desired by the gelatin commandos.

I have written this before and it bears repeating, bullets will only kill in one of two ways: damaging the central nervous system enough to cause death or cutting enough tissue or vasculature to cause exsanguination (bleeding out, if you will). As for "stopping a fight" that is either through physical incapacitation or psychological factors that cause one to quit.

The major benefit in my observation regarding exapnding defensive ammunition is that it is less likely to penetrate and retain enough energy to damage an unintended target. Things like "temporary wound cavity" and "energy dump" are mostly marketing mumbo-jumbo.

The point I am slowly getting to is that super duper faster ammo at a higher pressure than the manufacturer intended will not likely bring a real and calculabel benefit. Sure, many people are going to chime in with foot pounds numbers and shit like that. If you want .357 speeds, get a .357 (heck even one of those nifty .357 Sig bottom feeders). Your 9mm does what it does and does it well. Modern bullet designs like Hornady critical defense, guard dog, PDX1 and the likes are fantastic. If you pursue something that is neither beneficial nor effective, you may get an abundance of it along with other problems.

Shot placement is everything.

[bigredxlt]

yea you are right, those federal BPE 9mm +p+ rounds must have gained a great reputation with law enforcement due to marketing mumbo jumbo.

+P and +P+ is all marketing sizzle. Back in the old days (more than 8-10 years ago) bullet design (as in the projectile) was less advanced than it is today. Additional velocity was needed to make the expansion desired by the gelatin commandos.

I have written this before and it bears repeating, bullets will only kill in one of two ways: damaging the central nervous system enough to cause death or cutting enough tissue or vasculature to cause exsanguination (bleeding out, if you will). As for "stopping a fight" that is either through physical incapacitation or psychological factors that cause one to quit.

The major benefit in my observation regarding exapnding defensive ammunition is that it is less likely to penetrate and retain enough energy to damage an unintended target. Things like "temporary wound cavity" and "energy dump" are mostly marketing mumbo-jumbo.

The point I am slowly getting to is that super duper faster ammo at a higher pressure than the manufacturer intended will not likely bring a real and calculabel benefit. Sure, many people are going to chime in with foot pounds numbers and shit like that. If you want .357 speeds, get a .357 (heck even one of those nifty .357 Sig bottom feeders). Your 9mm does what it does and does it well. Modern bullet designs like Hornady critical defense, guard dog, PDX1 and the likes are fantastic. If you pursue something that is neither beneficial nor effective, you may get an abundance of it along with other problems.

Shot placement is everything.