Question on altered/obliterated serial number

[staylo]

I don't post here much, but I read here a lot, and now I have one of 'those' questions I'm hoping someone can help with.

My father-in-law gave me his Win. Mod. 70 30-06. After I got it I inspected it and discovered that the serial number had been obliterated and a (new?)number stamped in its place. He had all of his guns stolen, along with one of his cars, and they found the guy in Texas or someplace down south with the guns still in the car, so the guns were returned to him via law enforcement channels, so I assume that they were aware at the time they returned them to him that the serial number had been filed off. What's not so clear is who stamped the number that is currently on the gun. My father-in-law is old and of questionable reliability as far as his memory goes, but he says he didn't re-stamp the number. I'm still working on trying to figure out if the number that's been re-stamped is the original serial number of the gun or a random number. I did find a hand-engraved number on the bottom side of the bolt that's faint and not easy to see, so I'm guessing that perhaps my father-in-law, or someone who maybe worked on the gun in the past, engraved the serial number on the bolt. That number matches the number that's been put back on the receiver.

Anyway, I was concerned as to whether it's legal to own this gun as I'm aware it's a serious offense to buy/sell a gun with an obliterated serial number. What about a gun that's been handed down within a family? I called my county sherriff's office to ask their opinion and the deputy in charge of firearms matters told me to call a gunsmith or gunshop. What??!! Anyway, I'm hoping someone here has some experience with this type of situation. Thanks everyone!

[knight0334]

I think there is a legal way for the gun to have it's number restamped, restamped, or issued a new one. ...but my memory is a little rusty on the subject. I do know the ATF is part of the equation in doing that.

I really don't think it is an issue in this situation. Does your dad have any paperwork from the police that returned it?

[staylo]

That's a good question. I'll have to ask him about police reports, etc.

[PaBimmerGuy]

contact winchester and ask them in the s/n is from a model 70 in 30-06.

there is a requirement that there is a serial number and that number is assigned by the manufacturer but i dont recall reading any prohibition on restamping numbers.

the number on the bolt is probably from the factory.

[staylo]

I did check Winchester's serial number checklist and the number on the gun does fall within the serial number range for 1964. I don't know if there's any way to confirm, however, that that number was actually assigned to this particular gun, or if someone just picked a number in the range and stamped it.

[John-Pa]

There is a firearm experienced Attorney who frequents this site. If you are lucky enough to get his reply I would follow his comments.

The ATF (Feds) has addressed altered serial numbers in their literature. For crime tracing reasons they take this very seriously. Since it is visually evident that this has been re-stamped (altered) it would be very important to determine if this number represents the original serial number.

Even if the re-stamping represents the original number, the ATF does have minimum metal depth and size requirements in place.

The real problem becomes who and when was this altered. Could law enforcement suspect you have have been the individual who did this?
Could you prove you did not.

You have a tough situation and I would be concerned with this.

[bac0nfat]

If it was made before 1968 then it doesn't need a serial number at all, right?

And since it's a long gun, 18 Pa.C.S. § 6110.2 doesn't apply, right? EDIT: Looks like it does apply. Those pesky multiple definitions of "firearm" in the UFA got me again.

[knight0334]

If it was made before 1968 then it doesn't need a serial number at all, right?

And since it's a long gun, 18 Pa.C.S. § 6110.2 doesn't apply, right? EDIT: Looks like it does apply. Those pesky multiple definitions of "firearm" in the UFA got me again.

If it was made before 1968 it wasn't required to have one. And if it was removed before 1968 you might be able to argue a grandfathered status.

However, the act of removing the serial number from any firearm the exists after 1968 is very well a violation of law regardless if the gun was made before or after 1968.

[BimmerJon]

If it was made before 1968 it wasn't required to have one. And if it was removed before 1968 you might be able to argue a grandfathered status.

However, the act of removing the serial number from any firearm the exists after 1968 is very well a violation of law regardless if the gun was made before or after 1968.

Is it illegal to REMOVE a serial number (act) or is it illegal to possess a firearm with a removed serial?

Is it the act or the item?

[bac0nfat]

The "act of removing" is the violation, or the possession of a gun with altered serial number is the violation? If its the former, then the OP should be okay since he wasn't the one who commited the act.

Edit: beat me to it bimmer.