OC encounters.. Plymouth Meeting and South Phillly

[EMT-B_Medic Student]

So the first happened on 3-30-12 at the Dicks Sporting Goods in Plymouth meeting. I was shopping for a paintball gun when I realized I needed a wagon to carry the 4000 paintballs I was also buying. I had been in the store for about 10 minutes now and passed multiple employees who said nothing about my OC'd G23. Then as I get my shopping cart I hear an employee say
" Hey is that a gun on your hip"
Me- yes it is
Her- well can you cover it up.
Me- Does your store not support open carry?
Her- can you please just cover it up
Me- no mam this is how I choose to carry my firearm
Her- well there are lots of kids here and I think it's going to scare them
Me- well I'd licensed to carry this firearm and i will leave the store of you want me to but I am not going to cover it up
Her- There are lots of kids here just cover it up.

I knew she wouldnt stop talking so I put my shirt over my holster, walked away and looked back as I uncoverd it again.
I finished my shopping and as she saw me approach the register with $360.00 worth of merchandise she didn't say a thing to me.


Second Encounter happed on 3-31-12 at the Walmart on Colombus Blvd in South Philly. I walked in right past 3 PPD officers who were chatting with their BACKS towards the door. I did my shopping,paid and left the store. I then realized that I forgot to get some hamburger buns. I went back in to get them and as I finished paying I hear
PPD #1- My man
PPD #1- MY MAN!
Me- Yes officer.
PPD #1- Are you police?
Me- No. I have my License to carry.
PPD #1- Uhhh okay can I see it?
Me- sure it's in my left cargo pocket can I get it?( he says sure)
PPD #1- Where are you from?
Me- I live here In Philly
PPD #1- And do you think it's safe to carry like that?
Me- Yes i do.
PPD #2 Where in Philly?
Me- Manayunk
PPD #2 yea that's why you feel safe carrying like that
Me-Well I've lived in Frankford and Kensington and I've always carried like this
PPD #2 not openly like that
Me- yes I have sir.
At this time the one officer moves to my left and I'm kin of surrounded. Then they start going off about why I shouldn't OC and I thought my iPhone was recording the whole thing but got a call at the start of the encounter that stopped the recording app.
PPD #1- well someone is gonna try and take that from you
PPD #2 and I see you don't have thr level three retention
I tell him that Im pretty aware with my surroundings and keep my elbow near my holster when someone in behind me in line.
PPD #2 well when you're in kensington don't think that your elbow and one gun is going to stop their four guns.
PPD #2- where you work.( I tell him)
PPD #2 do you carry like that at work?
Me- no i can't. It's a gun free zone.
PPD #2- well where did you work before
Me- am I being detained and interrogated? Because I feel I am being asked too many questions just for a license check.
PPD #2 no just making small talk
The officer calling in the license check asks what kind of gun it is and I tell him. He gets a description of me and what I'm wearing
Then the conversation about "well if someone is going to rob the store and they see you they are going to shoot you and take your gun" starts
I realized that I have already said too much to them and just start nodding my head.Its been about 7 minutes now and the radio call comes back with a valid ltcf, but they say that I need to update my address on the card. I tell them that I already went to the gun permit unit and updated it and it is not necessary to change it on the card.
They say in their system it is not updated. So I will be calling them on Monday to check on that.

[BimmerJon]

I realized that I have already said too much to them

Wisest thing in the whole encounter. The more you answer their questions, the more questions they are going to ask. Try and not engage in their fishing.

A license has nothing to do with your firearm or what type it is.
most of their questions were out of line and pointless. Where you work(ed)

It's human nature to respond to questions, especially when you know they are inappropriate. Try to not play their game.

"You're going to get killed!".... Just smile and keep asking if you're free to go.

Should've told them that criminals would easily be able to get the jump on them with their backs to the door.

[theduke]

at least the children made it home safe.

[uniballin]

What a shit show.

I'm glad the Philthy police are trying to oppress 2nd amendment rights still. Hopefully the dude who got choked while he was trying to eat with his father tears them a new asshole.

Oh, and the lady at Dick's is a moron. It's a fucking sporting goods store that SELLS GUNS. Am I missing something?

[sprrdhawk44]

Not to be overly critical, but if you're going to fold under pressure from a store worker, perhaps you should re-evalute why you open carry. By caving in to her senseless demand, you've reinforced the type of behavior she was engaging in. Personally, I would have asked her if she would like me to leave, and would have done so without quarrel had she asked me to. If she had not asked me to leave, I wouldn't have gone in circles about covering it up. I would have then followed up by contacting corporate. Like I said, I'm not busting your balls, and you can handle any situation as you see fit, but I just feel that it's counter productive when you don't take a stand.

[Shadowline]

You people never cease to amaze me. The dude has a right to open carry and conduct himself however he pleases when confronted. Its not always about being a champion for 2A rights, sometimes a dude just prefers to carry openly. Why does it always have to be a condemnation of someone else? "I would have..." "you should have..." "thats why you never...." Its crazy. Sometimes I wonder if people understand what rights truly are.

[mbinpa]

First off - I support anyone who wants to open carry. How he does it and what his responses are to others is up to him. I an not going to second guess anyone's responses - I am not there and they have to do what they are comfortable with.

One point to make. If a owner or employee of private property asks you to cover up you cover up. It only other option is to leave.

Most of the sheeple, and police, out there don't want to be educated and you would just be wasting your time trying to argue.

Purchases were made, not a lot of time wasted, life goes on.....

[soberbyker]

In a nutshell .....

You people never cease to amaze me. The dude has a right to open carry and conduct himself however he pleases when confronted. Its not always about being a champion for 2A rights, sometimes a dude just prefers to carry openly. Why does it always have to be a condemnation of someone else? "I would have..." "you should have..." "thats why you never...." Its crazy. Sometimes I wonder if people understand what rights truly are.

[andrewjs18]

good job at keeping your cool, OP.

go at your own pace, if you feel uncomfortable about the situation, then do what you feel is right.

[30Glock]

You people never cease to amaze me. The dude has a right to open carry and conduct himself however he pleases when confronted. Its not always about being a champion for 2A rights, sometimes a dude just prefers to carry openly. Why does it always have to be a condemnation of someone else? "I would have..." "you should have..." "thats why you never...." Its crazy. Sometimes I wonder if people understand what rights truly are.

I believe people post their encounters so that it can be either critiqued or they seek some form of approval from the members here.

It is both constructive and informative to read how other members here would have handled this encounter. There is a lot of information that can be gathered by these postings, and we have lots of members that are seasoned and post excellent advice.

When illegal or erroneous information is given they are quickly corrected by others and it is what makes this community interesting. It’s a learning curve for us all.