Our Arguement

[gunnin-for-the-big-one]

Just a little while ago my mother and i were discussing CCW. I proceeded to bring up that, what if you had a charge on your juvenile record of say gettin in a fight at school and you were charged with assault. Now your 25 or so and youve never been in another fight or anything dealing with violence and you go to get your CCW permit? She is also saying that to get a CCW permit, you would probably need a good reason (i.e. job) to be able to get it. What should i tell her to make her see that she obviously has no idea what she is talking about? I know that anyone without a felony or violent record can get a CCW permit without a reason except for your own self defense.

[ByblosHex]

Just a little while ago my mother and i were discussing CCW. I proceeded to bring up that, what if you had a charge on your juvenile record of say gettin in a fight at school and you were charged with assault. Now your 25 or so and youve never been in another fight or anything dealing with violence and you go to get your CCW permit? She is also saying that to get a CCW permit, you would probably need a good reason (i.e. job) to be able to get it. What should i tell her to make her see that she obviously has no idea what she is talking about? I know that anyone without a felony or violent record can get a CCW permit without a reason except for your own self defense.

What should you tell her? The law.
This is who is unable to obtain a License To Carry Firearms(LTCF) in Pa.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
(e) Issuance of license.--
(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.
(ii) An individual who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act. [FN1]
(iii) An individual convicted of a crime enumerated in section 6105.
(iv) An individual who, within the past ten years, has been adjudicated delinquent for a crime enumerated in section 6105 or for an offense under The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act.
(v) An individual who is not of sound mind or who has ever been committed to a mental institution.
(vi) An individual who is addicted to or is an unlawful user of marijuana or a stimulant, depressant or narcotic drug.
(vii) An individual who is a habitual drunkard.
(viii) An individual who is charged with or has been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year except as provided for in section 6123 (relating to waiver of disability or pardons).
(ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
(x) An alien who is illegally in the United States.
(xi) An individual who has been discharged from the armed forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.
(xii) An individual who is a fugitive from justice. This subparagraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).
(xiii) An individual who is otherwise prohibited from possessing, using, manufacturing, controlling, purchasing, selling or transferring a firearm as provided by section 6105.
(xiv) An individual who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under the statutes of the United States.

This is who is unable to own or be in the possession of firearms in Pa.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6105: Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) A person who has been convicted of an offense enumerated in subsection (b), within or without this Commonwealth, regardless of the length of sentence or whose conduct meets the criteria in subsection (c) shall not possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture or obtain a license to possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture a firearm in this Commonwealth.
(2)(i) A person who is prohibited from possessing, using, controlling, selling, transferring or manufacturing a firearm under paragraph (1) or subsection (b) or (c) shall have a reasonable period of time, not to exceed 60 days from the date of the imposition of the disability under this subsection, in which to sell or transfer that person's firearms to another eligible person who is not a member of the prohibited person's household.
(ii) This paragraph shall not apply to any person whose disability is imposed pursuant to subsection (c)(6).
(b) Enumerated offenses.--The following offenses shall apply to subsection (a):
Section 908 (relating to prohibited offensive weapons).
Section 911 (relating to corrupt organizations).
Section 912 (relating to possession of weapon on school property).
Section 2502 (relating to murder).
Section 2503 (relating to voluntary manslaughter).
Section 2504 (relating to involuntary manslaughter) if the offense is based on the reckless use of a firearm.
Section 2702 (relating to aggravated assault).
Section 2703 (relating to assault by prisoner).
Section 2704 (relating to assault by life prisoner).
Section 2709.1 (relating to stalking).
Section 2716 (relating to weapons of mass destruction).
Section 2901 (relating to kidnapping).
Section 2902 (relating to unlawful restraint).
Section 2910 (relating to luring a child into a motor vehicle or structure).
Section 3121 (relating to rape).
Section 3123 (relating to involuntary deviate sexual intercourse).
Section 3125 (relating to aggravated indecent assault).
Section 3301 (relating to arson and related offenses).
Section 3302 (relating to causing or risking catastrophe).
Section 3502 (relating to burglary).
Section 3503 (relating to criminal trespass) if the offense is graded a felony of the second degree or higher.
Section 3701 (relating to robbery).
Section 3702 (relating to robbery of motor vehicle).
Section 3921 (relating to theft by unlawful taking or disposition) upon conviction of the second felony offense.
Section 3923 (relating to theft by extortion) when the offense is accompanied by threats of violence.
Section 3925 (relating to receiving stolen property) upon conviction of the second felony offense.
Section 4906 (relating to false reports to law enforcement authorities) if the fictitious report involved the theft of a firearm as provided in section 4906(c)(2).
Section 4912 (relating to impersonating a public servant) if the person is impersonating a law enforcement officer.
Section 4952 (relating to intimidation of witnesses or victims).
Section 4953 (relating to retaliation against witness , victim or party).
Section 5121 (relating to escape).
Section 5122 (relating to weapons or implements for escape).
Section 5501(3) (relating to riot).
Section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training).
Section 5516 (relating to facsimile weapons of mass destruction).
Section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor).
Section 6301 (relating to corruption of minors).
Section 6302 (relating to sale or lease of weapons and explosives).
Any offense equivalent to any of the above-enumerated offenses under the prior laws of this Commonwealth or any offense equivalent to any of the above-enumerated offenses under the statutes of any other state or of the United States.
(c) Other persons.--In addition to any person who has been convicted of any offense listed under subsection (b), the following persons shall be subject to the prohibition of subsection (a):
(1) A person who is a fugitive from justice. This paragraph does not apply to an individual whose fugitive status is based upon a nonmoving or moving summary offense under Title 75 (relating to vehicles).
(2) A person who has been convicted of an offense under the act of April 14, 1972 (P.L. 233, No. 64), known as The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act, or any equivalent Federal statute or equivalent statute of any other state, that may be punishable by a term of imprisonment exceeding two years.
(3) A person who has been convicted of driving under the influence of alcohol or controlled substance as provided in 75 Pa.C.S. § 3802 (relating to driving under influence of alcohol or controlled substance) or the former 75 Pa.C.S. § 3731, on three or more separate occasions within a five-year period. For the purposes of this paragraph only, the prohibition of subsection (a) shall only apply to transfers or purchases of firearms after the third conviction
(4) A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L. 817, No. 143), [FN2] known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.
(5) A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
(6) A person who is the subject of an active protection from abuse order issued pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108, which order provided for the relinquishment of firearms during the period of time the order is in effect. This prohibition shall terminate upon the expiration or vacation of an active protection from abuse order or portion thereof relating to the relinquishment of firearms.
(7) A person who was adjudicated delinquent by a court pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. § 6341 (relating to adjudication) or under any equivalent Federal statute or statute of any other state as a result of conduct which if committed by an adult would constitute an offense under sections 2502, 2503, 2702, 2703 (relating to assault by prisoner), 2704, 2901, 3121, 3123, 3301, 3502, 3701 and 3923.
(8) A person who was adjudicated delinquent by a court pursuant to 42 Pa.C.S. § 6341 or under any equivalent Federal statute or statute of any other state as a result of conduct which if committed by an adult would constitute an offense enumerated in subsection (b) with the exception of those crimes set forth in paragraph (7). This prohibition shall terminate 15 years after the last applicable delinquent adjudication or upon the person reaching the age of 30, whichever is earlier.
(9) A person who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9) (relating to unlawful acts). If the offense which resulted in the prohibition under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9) was committed, as provided in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(33)(A)(ii) (relating to definitions), by a person in any of the following relationships:
(i) the current or former spouse, parent or guardian of the victim;
(ii) a person with whom the victim shares a child in common;
(iii) a person who cohabits with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent or guardian; or
(iv) a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim; then the relationship need not be an element of the offense to meet the requirements of this paragraph.

There is no requirement for employment to own, possess or carry firearms. One does not need any reason to have a LTCF or to carry firearms. It's a God given right. Pa recognizes that right. I believe the Pa Constitution says it best.

CONSTITUTION OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

[gunnin-for-the-big-one]

Thats is good to know but i need to tell her in the legal style that you dont need no damn good reason to CCW or to get the permit to CCW other than because you want to just in case you would need it.

[ByblosHex]

Thats is good to know but i need to tell her in the legal style that you dont need no damn good reason to CCW or to get the permit to CCW other than because you want to just in case you would need it.

The reason would be "There's no reason not to." The only thing I don't understand is why anyone who is not a prohibited person would deny themselves that right. It's not much different than denying yourself your freedom of expression or religious belief. The right to defend one's self is more vital than the others.

[gunnin-for-the-big-one]

The reason would be "There's no reason not to." The only thing I don't understand is why anyone who is not a prohibited person would deny themselves that right. It's not much different than denying yourself your freedom of expression or religious belief. The right to defend one's self is more vital than the others.

That was kind of my point to her but she wouldnt except it. I had told her that i was going to get my CCW permit and she began her "you wont be able to...." rant because she thinks that she knows it all since she went to school to become a paralegal. She continues to think that the FBI or someone would prohibit you to get a CCW permit unless a special reason was presented (i.e. job or other likewise reason). Now she is not a gun person so i can understand her not knowing but she thinks that because you have no good reason other than you want to, you wont be able to get your permit. I need some way to tell her that she is full of shit and stinkin up the house, without being so rude about it.

[ByblosHex]

That was kind of my point to her but she wouldnt except it. I had told her that i was going to get my CCW permit and she began her "you wont be able to...." rant because she thinks that she knows it all since she went to school to become a paralegal. She continues to think that the FBI or someone would prohibit you to get a CCW permit unless a special reason was presented (i.e. job or other likewise reason). Now she is not a gun person so i can understand her not knowing but she thinks that because you have no good reason other than you want to, you wont be able to get your permit. I need some way to tell her that she is full of shit and stinkin up the house, without being so rude about it.

Well, besides showing her the law which I already provided you. You could go down to the Franklin County Sheriff's office and get a copy of the application, or get your LTCF.

As a matter of a fact, here's a copy of the requirements as written by the Franklin Country Sheriff's department.

And here's a link to the actual application Itself. It's one page. That's all there is to it.

[IronSight]

That was kind of my point to her but she wouldnt except it. I had told her that i was going to get my CCW permit and she began her "you wont be able to...." rant because she thinks that she knows it all since she went to school to become a paralegal. She continues to think that the FBI or someone would prohibit you to get a CCW permit unless a special reason was presented (i.e. job or other likewise reason). Now she is not a gun person so i can understand her not knowing but she thinks that because you have no good reason other than you want to, you wont be able to get your permit. I need some way to tell her that she is full of shit and stinkin up the house, without being so rude about it.

I would hope a paralegal would understand that the FBI is a federal agency with no authority to impose additional regulations upon state laws concerning the carrying of firearms.

You could always let her pose her questions and feelings about the process in a new thread here on the boards, if she's up for a bit of information coming straight from those who have licenses already.

Pennsylvania is shall issue, there is no need requirement under the law, you can tell her that's information coming straight from a 2a activist who happens to be marrying a paralegal if you feel like it.

[IronSight]

Well, besides showing her the law which I already provided you. You could go down to the Franklin County Sheriff's office and get a copy of the application, or get your LTCF.

As a matter of a fact, here's a copy of the requirements as written by the Franklin Country Sheriff's department.

And here's a link to the actual application Itself. It's one page. That's all there is to it.

Oh that's nice, good to see the Sheriff still isn't following the law.

[gunnin-for-the-big-one]

Well, besides showing her the law which I already provided you. You could go down to the Franklin County Sheriff's office and get a copy of the application, or get your LTCF.

As a matter of a fact, here's a copy of the requirements as written by the Franklin Country Sheriff's department.

And here's a link to the actual application Itself. It's one page. That's all there is to it.

Thank you, i think she finally realised that she is not a gun savvy as she thought about the CCW permit. Now i have to ask you for my own ignorance, does the LTCF double as the permit to CCW?

[gunnin-for-the-big-one]

I would hope a paralegal would understand that the FBI is a federal agency with no authority to impose additional regulations upon state laws concerning the carrying of firearms.

You could always let her pose her questions and feelings about the process in a new thread here on the boards, if she's up for a bit of information coming straight from those who have licenses already.

Pennsylvania is shall issue, there is no need requirement under the law, you can tell her that's information coming straight from a 2a activist who happens to be marrying a paralegal if you feel like it.

Sadly my mother is the type that, no matter what you tell her or how much experience you have your always wrong and shes always right. Even for a paralegal she is not very bright about the law, thats why she was never hired as a paralegal and is now trying to get her bondsman license.