Philadelphia Open Carry Training Memorandum - "Assist Officer No. 2011-01"

[ViperGTS19801]

Find enclosed the Philadelphia Police Department's memorandum regarding the practice of Open Carry (visibly carrying a firearm on one's person while on the public streets or property of Philadelphia).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/85065364
(file is too large for hosting here at PAFOA)

[twency]

Concealed Carry Firearms License

Immediately seize the firearm for officer safety during the stop and unload the firearm if possible.

officer safety is of the utmost importance [my emphasis]

etc.


Document is full of fail.

[snakeman21]

Wow, I love that we have a "Concealed Carry Firearms License" now... When do I get mine?

Edit: Dammit, Twency beat me to it. Crap, you're quick!

[mrjam2jab]

Well....looks like they at least got the reciprocity part correct.

Otherwise isn't this the same one that came out last year?

[Curmudgeon]

Well....looks like they at least got the reciprocity part correct.

Otherwise isn't this the same one that came out last year?

I especially love that part where it says philly requires a separate permit.

This document is date June 2011.

[PocketProtector]

We expect a .gov entity to get it right?
Never happen.
Somebody here better write it for them

[Gun]

So this was issued, what, five months after your encounter?!!?

[libra8]

So they get sued for violating someone's civil rights and lose, but they will still violate people's civil rights by illegally seizing one's firearm for officer safety. Guess they didn't learn.

[twency]

Compare the logic which that document uses for justifying detaining open carriers and investigating their license status (when detained solely for the act of open carrying in Philadelphia) together with the text of the UFA on the subject to the text of the PA motor vehicle code on licensing of drivers.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia
No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
(1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106 of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

CHAPTER 15
LICENSING OF DRIVERS
SUBCHAPTER A
GENERAL PROVISIONS
§ 1501. Drivers required to be licensed.
(a) General rule.--No person, except those expressly exempted, shall
drive any motor vehicle upon a highway or public property in this
Commonwealth unless the person has a driver's license valid under the
provisions of this chapter. As used in this subsection, the term "public
property" includes, but is not limited to, driveways and parking lots owned
or leased by the Commonwealth, a political subdivision or an agency or
instrumentality of either.

Seems as though by PPD's logic it would be "entirely reasonable for the officer to temporarily detain and investigate" any person observed driving upon a highway or public property in Philadelphia, because "it is impossible for any officer to know who does and does not have a valid [driver's] license."

[Boots_DE]

Cars can be used as deadly weapons and a license is needed to operate one. So, when an officer sees a car being driven do they see a need to detain the operator and secure the keys 'for officer safety' until it can be determined the operator has a valid license and there are no other offenses or violations being investigated?

In addition to it being a Fourth Amendment violation, apparently stopping drivers is just too big a task. So, maybe we just need many more open carriers in Philly to make it not worth their while?