Denied/revoked LCTF... we are making lawyers rich

[Farbmeister]

I have read, and even contributed to fine members who have been denied or had had their LCTF revoked.

Other than putting approx $4k into the lawdogs pockets, what have 'WE' gained from it?

Maybe a 'how to' or detailed map of what happened, how much and who it had to go to?

Every anti LCTF sheriff can nickel and dime us (seems $2k is the going rate to get your card) and we do nothing but pay.

Not sure what I am asking, but putting up a Jackson everytime someone get screwed will get old quick.

[sjl127]

It's not expensive, those costs are about right, that's just what any type of legal action costs. If you think it's expensive, choose your battles wisely.

[Karl/PA]

Remember the lawyer's prayer.....

Lord let there be strife among the multitudes in order that your servant may prosper.

[XD45]

you can't blame lawyers for what the sheriff's have done. They are charging for their service like anyone else, sure most people think lawyers are the scum of the earth but they arent the ones who revoked your LTCF.

[sgt7546]

The Lawyers are doing what they do for a living. Just like the rest of us expect to be paid for going to work, so do Lawyers. I don't grasp the problem.

[Farbmeister]

I don't care about paying a lawyer.. I've done it many times in my business career.

My point is that we can be 'played' by anti-gun sheriffs, and have to pay for basically the same result over and over and over.

I know that filing court papers costs, but why should we have to pay to educate a lawyer for the same action in each county.

Since there will be two LCTF issues adjudicated by PFOA members (with both taking member donations).. maybe those documents can be made available (briefs? complaints?) so that if/when it happens again.. we can simply get a lawyer up to speed quicker. Or even file ourself with legal counsel advise.

Maybe thats what I meant to ask.

[Farbmeister]

It's not expensive, those costs are about right, that's just what any type of legal action costs. If you think it's expensive, choose your battles wisely.

Can I have $2k? Its not expensive

[jtkratzer]

Someone needs to find out if there is a way to recoup the costs of legal fees for inappropriately revoked permits or permit applications denied for no good reason. There has to be a way to get things done right without having to "buy" them. There also has to be a way to discourage sheriffs/police/departments from making mistakes that cost us thousands of our own dollars. It's not tax payers money we're spending, it's our own. I'm fortunate that my LTCF cost me the $25 for the Lancaster County application fee and I've yet to have any trouble.

It'd be nice for those who win their appeals/court cases over denied applications and revoked permits that the police department who was wrong and out of line to have the fees of the permit holder/applicant paid out of their budget. That won't work because then taxes will be raised for the budget. Perhaps it should come out of the officers' pay, from the entire department. Just like in sports when the entire team is punished for one player being a jerk off, punish the entire department and maybe we'll start seeing some officers understand and respect the laws.

[Frenchy]

I am sure the OP meant to say we have to try and do some thing to avoid getting to the point where we need a lawyer and I agree with this. See http://www.pafoa.org/forum/question-answer-40/15905-out-control-sheriffs-page-3.html#post197604 where I suggest it may be time to start an education product that could be not sent but personally delivered to the Sheriff and large police station chiefs before any of this ever happens. Some thing that shows what the law says is legal/illegal to do. Some thing that shows what the Sheriff is allowed to do and not allowed to do.

We all know there are a few Sheriff out there who take more then 45 days to produce a TLCF and some do more research then is asked by the State.
I believe it is time they understand it is not up to them to “Make” the law, just make sure it is protected. Right now, there are sheriffs out there who go uncontested and make the laws in the firearms business, It is not up to them to make these laws, Their job is to maintain and uphold these laws.

[jtkratzer]

The Lawyers are doing what they do for a living. Just like the rest of us expect to be paid for going to work, so do Lawyers. I don't grasp the problem.

We shouldn't have to fight the same battle over and over again. There needs to be a precedent set as far as what defines a character "issue" worthy of denying a permit. Someone who exercises his rights legally, regardless of opinion or complaint to the police by the IGNORANT, is does not have a character that would lead one to believe he/she is a threat/danger to the general public. I don't care if you don't like open carry nor do I care if you disagree with carrying on private property or in my personal business. Just because you don't like it and you call the cops to complain, that shouldn't be a free pass for the sheriff to deny a permit. It also has been proven in court that when a permit is revoked for an unjust reason, the permit will be reinstated.