this is disturbing

[coble]

My turn to learn: What's a rockhead? Sometimes my Dad would call me that(still does on occasion) and it was never a good thing

I thought it was another for a crackhead. You must have done some pretty dumb shit

[Emptymag]

BTW, where's the "other" thread? It's GOT to be easier to follow than this one.

[sprrdhawk44]

Reciprocity is not a requirement throughout the rest of PA, is it a requirement in Philadelphia?

I believe in Philadelphia's mind it is, but there is no law affirming it.

[joeybagadonutzz]

In the top right of PAFOA, we have a reference library link...

You will find this, and this is before/beyond any of the newer legislation which softens the duty to retreat:



In another section under justification of using force:



One could get into trouble under (b) if the person being attacked/brought into custody intitiated deadly force. In the video shown, it is clear that the victim at the time of video taping is no longer capable of resisting and this is no longer a possible arrest but even if so, has become a crime as force did not desist after the victim decided not to resist further or became incapable of doing so. IANAL and this is not legal advise.

We are not police and are not required to give up our element of surprise by shouting to people to cease and desist, or you're under arrest or such nonsense. However, unless you are sure of what is going on and were there from beginning to end; I would probably say something rather than just start shooting. There are moral issues as well as legal issues when judged in court (or should we say armchaired quarterbacked in complete safety at a later time). The problem is that' reasonable person', and reasonable standards and 'the facts at the time as a person knew them to be' will be at play. These statements are made throughout the statutes.

One must be open or hesitate somewhat that the what you are seeing might not be what is actually happening. There may be more to the story that you did not see. In the example, it becomes obvious rather quickly.

I just want people to recall that not everything is cut and dry for immediate action/reaction.

You hear a woman's scream (perhaps you hear a gunshot or two) around the corner in an allyway. You round the corner to see a man with a drawn gun (perhaps even smoking from the discharge) and a purse in his hand with a woman laying on the ground sobbing/crying and not making much sense. Is the man the suspect, an undercover or a LTCF person rendering aid and the perp got away?

I can see drawing in the scenario just in case. But one must wait to decide what is going on perhaps back up around the corner and watch further. If you draw down, the suspect might engage as you will lose the element of surprise. To engage immediately might cause you to shoot an innocent person. You might not be legally charged...the facts as you knew them to be at the time were wrong but how were you to know? But can you live with that? You might still be found guilty of criminal or civil negligence which is a worse case. Also, the suspect might shoot first, or the suspect, an undercover will have training that might beat your training or expectations. There are several good and bad outcomes as you can see. There are more, of course, but these will suffice.

Coming into the middle of something you know little about is the most dangerous situation possible. Dangerous to health and well being physically and as far as your liberties (eg. staying out of jail or losing everything civilly).

IANAL.

Now thats walkin softly but carrying a big stick...Greeat insight

[MostlyHarmless]

I doubt there is a jury in PA that would convict you of any wrongdoing if you put these rabid animals down.

That depends.

At the moment of your shooting, you have no idea if the video is any good to explain why you shot.

At the moment of your shooting, you have no idea if the video will be available after the shot. People, including bystanders and potential witnesses, tend to disappear shortly before police arrives.

At the moment of your shooting, you have no idea how much longer the beaten guy may lay or hang around. He too could be gone by the time, the cops arrive.

You see where this is going?


Jan

[sprrdhawk44]

That depends.

At the moment of your shooting, you have no idea if the video is any good to explain why you shot.

At the moment of your shooting, you have no idea if the video will be available after the shot. People, including bystanders and potential witnesses, tend to disappear shortly before police arrives.

At the moment of your shooting, you have no idea how much longer the beaten guy may lay or hang around. He too could be gone by the time, the cops arrive.

You see where this is going?


Jan

I do see what you're saying. However, this is true for just about ANY self defense scenario. I would let the facts speak for themselves.

[scruff]

Seriously... would anyone here REALLY have shot?

Morally and ethically, I wouldn't even BLINK
But legally... scares the shit outta me
I KNOW IT IS JUSTIFIED.... but I DONT trust the system

I can hear it now...

"Why did you shoot him? Why didn't you call 911 or talk calmly to him and give him a hug?"

I'd draw on them from a safe distance, then yell at them to stop, and pray that they have enough sense to run away. The goal is to stop the attack, not to shoot someone. If they continue the attack, then they choose to remove themselves from the human gene pool. So be it.

[Gun]

My turn to learn: What's a rockhead?

Someone who is dense, as in it doesn't sink
in, the ramifications of one's actions.

[Gun]

I can see drawing in the scenario just in case. But one must wait to decide what is going on perhaps back up around the corner and watch further. If you draw down, the suspect might engage as you will lose the element of surprise. To engage immediately might cause you to shoot an innocent person. You might not be legally charged...the facts as you knew them to be at the time were wrong but how were you to know? But can you live with that? You might still be found guilty of criminal or civil negligence which is a worse case. Also, the suspect might shoot first, or the suspect, an undercover will have training that might beat your training or expectations. There are several good and bad outcomes as you can see. There are more, of course, but these will suffice.

Coming into the middle of something you know little about is the most dangerous situation possible. Dangerous to health and well being physically and as far as your liberties (eg. staying out of jail or losing everything civilly).

IANAL.

Thought about this in concern with the Arizona shootings last year.

You see someone pull out a firearm and start firing away. You are
armed, pull your firearm and shoot the actor. Someone around the
corner, hearing all the gunfire, comes running. He sees you standing
there with your gun still in hand. He thinks you are the shooter, and
he is armed. Not hard to figure out the rest.

[PowerPM]

Obviously someone witnessed this attack because there is footage posted on the inter tube.... Is there any culpability for the bystanders to do nothing. Also, it looks like in the video the faces of the attackers are pixeled or covered up.... Did the news post anything or is there a date on the attack or ems records?.....