Shipping a shotgun

[1iarrowking]

Went to UPS today to ship my skeet and sporting gun to Briley to be fitted with gauge tubes. The guy at the counter asked what was in the box and when I told him a shotgun he told me guns could only be shipped by FFL's to FFL's, it was the law. I told him that was only handguns but he wasn't buying it. I said it might be a UPS rule but it was not the law.

I left UPS and went to Fed Ex where I had no problem. My gun is on it's way to Briley.

Anyone else run into a problem at UPS? If UPS has this stupid policy company wide then Fed Ex just earned all my shipping business even though it's a longer drive.

[reichebrown]

I have only ever shipped with fed-ex. I have shipped a shotgun to mossberg and a hand gun to S&W. No problems.

[tl_3237]

Obviously an opinionated oblivious employee...

Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States), law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.
Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally.
UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html

[HiredGoon]

Found this from UPS:

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

[tl_3237]

You could also have used the Post Office

d.Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90—618) and
18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 432.1b and c.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

[CrazyWhiteGuy]

I told him a shotgun he told me guns could only be shipped by FFL's to FFL's, it was the law. I told him that was only handguns but he wasn't buying it. I said it might be a UPS rule but it was not the law.

You both are wrong.

1. You are shipping to a gunsmith to work on your gun (handgun or long gun), neither has to be an FFL.
2. Handguns can be shipped from a normal person to an FFL, not from FFL to FFL only. However, some FFL's will only accept shipments from another FFL.

[soberbyker]

I shipped my Kahr CW9 (handgun) back to Kahr for repair via UPS at the Philly Airport. The only stipulation was it had to go overnight.

.

[tl_3237]

You both are wrong.

1. You are shipping to a gunsmith to work on your gun (handgun or long gun), neither has to be an FFL.
2. Handguns can be shipped from a normal person to an FFL, not from FFL to FFL only. However, some FFL's will only accept shipments from another FFL.

If the shipment is interstate and neither is Federally licensed, how do they avoid the proscription of 18 USC 922(a)(5)?

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[CrazyWhiteGuy]

If the shipment is interstate and neither is Federally licensed, how do they avoid the proscription of 18 USC 922(a)(5)?

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Difference between manufacturer and dealer (aka gunsmith):

The definition of “manufacturer” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(10) and 27 CFR 478.11 also requires that a person be “engaged in the business” before the manufacturer’s license requirement of section 923(a) applies. Thus, a person who manufactures a firearm will require a manufacturer’s license if he/she devotes time, attention, and labor to such manufacture as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.

If the person is performing such services only for a customer on firearms provided by that customer, and is not selling or distributing the firearms manufactured, the person would be a “dealer” as defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11)(B) and 27 CFR 478.11, requiring a dealer’s license, assuming the person is “engaged in the business” as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(D) and 27 CFR 478.11 (i.e., “gunsmithing”).

18 U.S.C. § 922 : US Code - Section 922: Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector
licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any
person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that -
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to
preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or
replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from
whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to
preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in
compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector;

[1iarrowking]

Thanks for all the comebacks and information. I have talked to several other shooters at my club who have also ran into this same problem at UPS. Maybe it's a Lehigh Valley thing?

I've had to many shipments lost by the USPS and getting reimbursed for missing merchandise is an exercise in futility. They'll tell you their records show it was delivered so it's not their responsibility. The only thing they ever owned up to was when, after three appeals and four months later they reimbursed me for a $37 item that their own tracking records showed was delivered in the wrong zip code. They did not reimburse me for the shipping and insurance fee I paid. There is just no way that I would entrust a $2800 firearm to the USPS.