'Run the Serial Number...'

[PAOhio]

Inspired by yet another thread with a LEO 'run the serial number' in it.

Can someone object to the 'run the serial numbers' and if so what would happen? I had a local speedtrap cop 'run the serial numbers' on my pistol once years ago. I told him it was not purchased in PA and wouldn't show up, but he ran it anyway.

Since PA 'doesn't have' a firearms registry, what are they running it against?

[GunGirl610]

probably checking for if its stolen, not registered.

[soberbyker]

From this thread posted by a police officer:

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/156...forcement.html

Article from the December 2011 MPOETC Newsletter


Law enforcement officers are often faced with the challenge of determining if a subject’s firearm does, in fact, belong to them. This information is not as easily obtained as one might think. The firearm information that is available to Pennsylvania (PA) law enforcement entities through CLEAN – FSADM (firearm records) is based on information provided by licensed firearm dealers in Pennsylvania, for legal sales and transfers of handguns in this state. This information is provided to the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) through the submission of the SP4-113 Application/Record of Sale (ROS), which is statutorily mandated to be completed for the legal sale or transfer of a handgun. Once received by PSP, the ROS data is entered into the system and used for several reasons to include when attempting to return a firearm to its lawful owner.

The biggest misconception about the ROS information is that it is a registry of all firearms. This is not the case. PA statute prohibits maintenance of a firearms registry. Further, the data housed in the ROS database does not include long guns, firearms that are brought into the state, and certain exempted transfers of handguns between individuals as stated below.

As an example, if a subject moves into PA from another state and he brings firearms with him, these firearms and the corresponding information would not be in the ROS database. Only if the subject transfers a firearm while in PA, and a ROS is completed, is the information then contained in the ROS database.

Transfers of handguns between spouses, parent and child or grandparent and grandchild do not require a ROS form to be completed. If a ROS form is not completed and is not provided to PSP, no information pertaining to that transfer will be available through an FS ADM query.

Many in law enforcement query a subject’s firearm against the ROS system and confiscate it if the subject’s name is not associated with the firearm. The confiscation of a firearm should never be solely based on a negative response to a firearm records query. The totality of circumstances to include your department’s policies should be taken into consideration when making a determination of whether confiscation is appropriate.

It should also be noted that PA law provides for loaning a firearm to an individual who has a license to carry a firearm issued in PA (see 18 Pa. C.S. §6115). Thus in this circumstance, a subject who has a valid license to carry issued in PA can legally carry a handgun even if they do not own it.

Should you have any questions concerning this information please contact Trooper Paul K. Anderson, Supervisor, Firearm Administrative Section, at 717-346-3091.

[PAOhio]

Thank you very much for the link. I appreciate it.

[ViperGTS19801]

I believe the only ground you'd have to stand on is a 4th Amendment issue, but since the officers are given vast amounts of leeway during traffic stops, if they decide to take your firearm "until the conclusion of the stop," you won't really be able to say no.

During an on-foot encounter, though, you have a better shot at telling him you are exercising your rights and not having to turn your posessions over.

[PAOhio]

I know an individual will mostly be unable to object to the removal for the duration an encounter if the officer desires it. I mean can I object to him 'running the number' while it is in his possession, (ex. a verbal 'I do not consent to you 'running the serial number' and feel that you have no probable cause to do so.")?

[ViperGTS19801]

You can object to the color of the sky all you want, but it's not within your control. Once the firearm is in an officer's hands and not yours, it's no longer your choice, no matter what you say. The more adament you are about them not running, the more they'll want to, anyway.

[customloaded]

Temporarily securing a firearm for officer's safety is just fine and dandy. Where it they violate the law in PA is checking to see if it's stolen. There is no case number,file number, no probable cause to believe the firearm is stolen or had been used in a crime, then there is no basis to check it against any database. Do they run your jockey shorts too? There is no difference. Private personal property is just that and seizing property for safety is one thing, checking without legal standing to see "WHATEVER" is a huge no no.

No LEO can just arbitrarily run Tags, DL #'s, LTCF, or any other thing just because. There has to be a valid legal reason for an officer to take action.

CL

[ViperGTS19801]

No LEO can just arbitrarily run Tags, DL #'s, LTCF, or any other thing just because. There has to be a valid legal reason for an officer to take action.

CL

I was under the impression that any police officer who is behind you for more than a few moments probably ran your tag anyway.

[chiques13]

I've been stopped because "i was behind you and ran your tag."
I had transferred the tag the day before and it came back to the other vehicle.

As the officer approached and asked for dl, reg, and ins, I asked the reason for the stop. When he told me, I gave him the pink slip only. He was upset, but I assume since he had no probable cause to stop me, he didn't object.

I knew I hadn't done anything wrong, as I was well aware he was behind me for two miles.
Second time same officer stopped me in 5 days. Previous was for a headlight out. Maybe the tag rang a bell, or maybe he was just a bored small town cop at 0030.

I was not carrying at the time.