"Anything I should be concerned about" asked LEO

[IronSight]

It's not an "automatic" check anywhere in PA like you think it is.... when someone runs your name or drivers license, your LTCF info does not just "pop up". The dispatcher at county 911 has to log into a seperate system to check the validity of LTCF's. The average officer on the street can not pull up this information on his own.

No agency that I am aware of (including PSP) has this ability to do without the assistance of the dispatch center. It is an involved process that requires a specific request by the officer.

*cough*

How extensive it is I'm not sure, and I'm not sure whether or not the LTCF information is shown automatically through it or whether or not the information is available through it with a bit more restrictive access than other information.

Perhaps I shouldn't have started off with "yes there is".

My over-riding point though is that officers do have access to the database of LTCF information beyond the access authorized specifically under State law.

I'd like to know under what authority the system was set up though since our general assembly outlined that the system was to be a 24/7 phone number for VALIDATION purposes and never outlined authority for a system where officers can just request LTCF information on someone through dispatch.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...6109/licenses/

(l) Firearms License Validation System.--
(1) The Pennsylvania State Police shall establish a nationwide toll- free telephone number, known as the Firearms License Validation System, which shall be operational seven days a week, 24 hours per day, for the purpose of responding to law enforcement inquiries regarding the validity of any Pennsylvania license to carry a firearm.
(2) Notwithstanding any other law regarding the confidentiality of information, inquiries to the Firearms License Validation System regarding the validity of any Pennsylvania license to carry a firearm may only be made by law enforcement personnel acting within the scope of their official duties.

In my non-lawyer opinion the current system equates to felony privacy law violations.

http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/...r-of-firearms/

(3.1) Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer or licensed importer who knowingly and intentionally obtains or furnishes information collected or maintained pursuant to section 6109 for any purpose other than compliance with this chapter or who knowingly or intentionally disseminates, publishes or otherwise makes available such information to any person other than the subject of the information commits a felony of the third degree.

I'd love to know how dispatch telling an officer that "x has an ltcf" while responding to a call unrelated to firearms is related to "compliance with this chapter".

There is at least one county doing this routinely.

So is there an "automatic" database access? I suppose not; but we know it is beyond what the general assembly explicitly authorized and that the limits of the current access are not dictated by an Act of the general assembly.

[5711-Marine]

Yes there is (see following posts); it's tied to the CLEAN system.

You can see proposed drafts of the connection here: http://andrewshemo.com/pafoa/rertkl2...siveRecord.pdf

Charts showing the current system aren't available yet, but it has been admitted to me from several very reliable sources that the system was implemented. How extensive it is I'm not sure, and I'm not sure whether or not the LTCF information is shown automatically through it or whether or not the information is available through it with a bit more restrictive access than other information.

Now if you said that there's no law setting up such a system in PA, then I would agree with you. I think we both know thought that the PSP doesn't have a history of caring about that.

more here on that system

[IronSight]

more here on that system

While connected, the equipment and system for issuing a license to carry is not the same as the system for validating a license to carry. They involve the same basic information though and have to be connected in some manner as a result, obviously.

Act 66 of 2005 added several sections to 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 among them this:

(l) Firearms License Validation System.--
(1) The Pennsylvania State Police shall establish a nationwide toll- free telephone number, known as the Firearms License Validation System, which shall be operational seven days a week, 24 hours per day, for the purpose of responding to law enforcement inquiries regarding the validity of any Pennsylvania license to carry a firearm.

and this:

(2) (i) The Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency shall implement, within five years of the effective date of this paragraph, a system in conjunction with the Pennsylvania State Police and the Pennsylvania Sheriffs' Association to standardize and modernize the process of issuing licenses to carry firearms.

What the Training Bulletin you linked to describes is the latter part of that, not the former (those involved ended up working on both). What is obvious now though, and could have been prevented had members of the General Assembly and the general public known about what was going on behind closed doors earlier (that advisory committee essentially met in secret, Sunshine Act be damned) is that those tasked with working on the latter section above decided to expand the system of license validation BEYOND what the general assembly outlined as a 24/7 phone number. That's why we have the access to licensee information beyond simple validation occurring today.

[unclejumbo]

When I retired in April, there was NO LTCF information provided when a drivers license and registration was input into the system.

Yes, there is phone number to call to validate that the person has an LTCF. That is a good thing since having a concealed firearm and no LTCF on you could create some unnecessary headaches without it. It is not used on every traffic stop to the best of my knowledge. There wouldn't be time or personnel to do so and any Trooper doing so would quickly find himself checking on barking dog complaints.

There is a universal rule among Road Dogs, don't fuck with PCOs.

[IronSight]

When I retired in April, there was NO LTCF information provided when a drivers license and registration was input into the system.

Thanks for commenting, what I need to get is a current chart outlining the system actually put into place relating to this whole thing. What I'm gathering from this thread is that the CLEAN access that ended up in place is limited to requests through dispatch.

That fits with information I have, and clarifies it.

Yes, there is phone number to call to validate that the person has an LTCF. That is a good thing since having a concealed firearm and no LTCF on you could create some unnecessary headaches without it. It is not used on every traffic stop to the best of my knowledge. There wouldn't be time or personnel to do so and any Trooper doing so would quickly find himself checking on barking dog complaints.

There is a universal rule among Road Dogs, don't fuck with PCOs.

PCO?

...

On a side note, I need to go talk about the information in this thread with some people in Harrisburg who really should know the full details on this system, but who don't.

I don't want to take this thread too far off the rails though, so thanks to those who've posted about the database/clean-access; I'll gather some information and update another old thread I have on this topic in a few days that is far overdue for an update.

[unclejumbo]

PCO?

Police Communications Operators

[Deleted]

CLEAN doesn't have anything to do with the LTCF stuff. It's a totally different system. CLEAN is the PA clearinghouse of wanted persons, stolen goods and the like in PA. It's big brother, NCIC is the national clearinghouse of the same.

If you were say wanted for simple assault or a non-extradition warrant you would be entered into CLEAN. If you were wanted for say bank robbery you would end up in NCIC as long as the state issuing the warrant is willing to extradite you from another state.

I will make a phone call to a 911 pal and find out for you what they check when they are looking up permit info.... give me a day to get the info.

[Deanimator]

"Anything I should be concerned about" asked LEO

Yeah, our unsustainable government spending.

[9orangeletters]

LEO: Anything I should be concerned about?

Global Warming.