On the Horizon HB 1918

[Brick]

Text not available at this time.
See: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...type=B&bn=1918

Regular Session 2011-2012
House Bill 1918

Short Title: An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in firearms and other dangerous articles, further providing for firearms not to be carried without a license, for sale or transfer of firearms and for antique firearms.
Prime Sponsor: Representative TALLMAN

The Sponsor of this bill has offered a Co-sposorship Memo.
See it at: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...011/0/8929.pdf

[C27433]

I understand that the text for this bill is not currently available. But I have some preliminary questions on the intent of this legislation as stated in the memo.

The PA Firearms Owners Against Crime have indicated support for this legislation to clear up ambiguities.

Question 1: Am I to understand that PAFOAC worked with Representative Tallman on the concept and/or text of this bill?

This legislation would follow the current federal exemption allowing ownership of antique firearms by individuals who might be restricted from owning modern guns.

Question 2: Who are these individuals who are restricted from owning modern guns? The two things that immediately come to my mind for what would make someone ineligible for owning firearms are:

1. Criminals (who meet the criteria in state law restricting ownership)
2. Those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

Question 3: Does this legislation intend to make it legal for any of the above two categories of individuals to own or possess an antique firearm?

I'll hold further comments until I can get clarification on these questions.

[WhiteFeather]

I understand that the text for this bill is not currently available. But I have some preliminary questions on the intent of this legislation as stated in the memo.

The PA Firearms Owners Against Crime have indicated support for this legislation to clear up ambiguities.

Question 1: Am I to understand that PA FOAC worked with Representative Tallman on the concept and/or text of this bill?

This legislation would follow the current federal exemption allowing ownership of antique firearms by individuals who might be restricted from owning modern guns.

Question 2: Who are these individuals who are restricted from owning modern guns? The two things that immediately come to my mind for what would make someone ineligible for owning firearms are:

1. Criminals (who meet the criteria in state law restricting ownership)
2. Those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

Question 3: Does this legislation intend to make it legal for any of the above two categories of individuals to own or possess an antique firearm?

I'll hold further comments until I can get clarification on these questions.

Question #1
Firearm Owners Against Crime (FOAC /ACSL leadership) often works with many different Reps (both "R" & "D")on writing up the actual language of proposed legislation and working directly with Reps to get the best possible outcome. We just don’t often get any (even less credit) mentioned for these efforts from behind the scenes.

Question #2 & 3 you can read the actual text to decide for yourself.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...type=B&BN=1918

In PA the term (Antique firearms) up in the air, or is vague, then its left to interpretation. When the laws in the UFA is not crystal clear its left up to the DA or the judge to decide what the law is. The fact you are being dragged into court because of bias against firearm & your action without criminal intent, should tell you about the problem with poor wording in exsiting law.

Without upgrades like this added protection in the law you can be left twisting in the justice (just a system) if you can’t find or afford a really good attorney that knows the UFA well enough to get you off, even then it cost you thousands.

Doing small preemptive strikes to fix the UFA for added clarification and make little corrections is the best way to solve this for the many firearm owners, that many like to quote or complain about the laws in PA, that only few actual help with the changes like this when its offered.

BTW.... We got the fecal touch with so many of the poorly worded firearm laws in PA because groups like FOAC & Others weren’t directly involved in the crafting of legislative wording and left (trusted) the writing of proposed laws to the HBG legislative reference bureau lawyers instead.

[Brick]

Let's make it a little easier for everyone. Here's the text of the bill being offered but for a more complete understanding you might want to bring up the UFA to read side-by-side.

Bear in mind that underlined text is an addition and text within [brackets] is to be deleted. But in this bill the deletions are important so I have colored them Green.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA
HOUSE BILL No. 1918
Session of 2011

INTRODUCED BY TALLMAN, BLOOM, CLYMER, GEORGE, KNOWLES, MILLER, MOUL, MURT, READSHAW, SONNEY, STERN, VULAKOVICH AND WHITE, OCTOBER 26, 2011

REFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY, OCTOBER 26, 2011

AN ACT

1 Amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania
2 Consolidated Statutes, in firearms and other dangerous
3 articles, further providing for firearms not to be carried
4 without a license, for sale or transfer of firearms and for
5 antique firearms.
6 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
7 hereby enacts as follows:
8 Section 1. Section 6106(e) of Title 18 of the Pennsylvania
9 Consolidated Statutes is amended and the section is amended by
10 adding a subsection to read:
11 § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
12 * * *
13 (d.1) Applicability to antique firearms.--The provisions of
14 this section shall apply to an antique firearm.
15 (e) Definitions.--
16 (1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and
17 (8), the term "firearm" shall include any weapon which is
18 designed to or may readily be converted to expel any
19 projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or

1 receiver of the weapon.
2 (2) As used in this section, the phrase "place of
3 instruction" shall include any hunting club, rifle club,
4 rifle range, pistol range, shooting range, the premises of a
5 licensed firearms dealer or a lawful gun show or meet.
6 (3) As used in this section, the phrase "antique
7 firearm" shall mean a firearm as defined in section 6102
8 (relating to definitions) that satisfies the definition of
9 "antique firearm" in section 6118 (relating to antique
10 firearms).
11 Section 2. Sections 6111(e) and 6118 of Title 18 are amended
12 to read:
13 § 6111. Sale or transfer of firearms.
14 * * *
15 [(e) Nonapplicability of section.--This section shall not
16 apply to the following:
17 (1) Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.
18 (2) Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or
19 percussion cap type of ignition system.
20 (3) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph
21 (1) if the replica:
22 (i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or
23 conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or
24 (ii) uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed
25 ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United
26 States and which is not readily available in the ordinary
27 channels of commercial trade.]
28 * * *
29 § 6118. Antique firearms.
30 (a) General rule.-- [This] Except as provided in section 6106

1 (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license), this
2 subchapter shall not apply to antique firearms.
3 [(b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to the
4 extent that such antique firearms, reproductions or replicas of
5 firearms are concealed weapons as provided in section 6106
6 (relating to firearms not be carried without a license), nor
7 shall it apply to the provisions of section 6105 (relating to
8 persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or
9 transfer firearms) if such antique firearms, reproductions or
10 replicas of firearms are suitable for use.]
11 (c) Definition.--As used in this section, the
[term "antique
12 firearm" means:] following words and phrases shall have the
13 meanings given to them in this subsection: "Antique firearm." The term means:
15 (1) Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or
16 percussion cap type of ignition system.
17 (2) Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.
18 (3) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph
19 (2) if such replica:
20 (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire
21 or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or
22 (ii) uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed
23 ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United
24 States and which is not readily available in the ordinary
25 channels of commercial trade.
26 "Firearm." The term includes any weapon that is designed to
27 or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the
28 action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of the weapon.
29 Section 3. This act shall take effect in 60 days.

As I interpret this bill antique firearms are to be included in the class of weapons not to carried without a license. And persons denied firearms possesion are also denied possession of antique firearms.

Please understand, I'm not a lawyer so if your interpetation differs please advise!

[bluedog46]

Is this an anti-open carry bill?

[BandanaBandit1]

Is this an anti-open carry bill?

Thats what i thought after reading through it..

[Brick]

Is this an anti-open carry bill?

I don't believe so, but under this law you will be required to have a LTCF if you wear your 1858 Remington Army under your coat.

Don't take my word for it though! Read it and compare it to the existing UFA.

[C27433]

I think because the changes are being made to so many different sections of the UFA, which aren't all laid out in their entirety in the legislation, except for those parts being amended, makes this bill a bit more confusing. I've done my best trying to figure it out, but I'm still stumped at the following statement from the sponsorship memo:

This legislation would follow the current federal exemption allowing ownership of antique firearms by individuals who might be restricted from owning modern guns.

Where is this, and who are they talking about?

[knight0334]

I think because the changes are being made to so many different sections of the UFA, which aren't all laid out in their entirety in the legislation, except for those parts being amended, makes this bill a bit more confusing. I've done my best trying to figure it out, but I'm still stumped at the following statement from the sponsorship memo:



Where is this, and who are they talking about?

Federal law only prohibits possession of modern firearms.

Under federal law a prohibited person like a felon or a person with state misdemeanor of more than 2 years can still own firearms made before 1898, muzzleloaders, and guns made after 1898 that used fixed ammo that isn't available under normal commerce(extremely rare ammo that isn't made anymore). ....Those guns are not considered to be "firearms" under the GCA of 1968. They can be bought/sold/traded across state lines without a FFL, even mail ordered straight to your door.

PA's present laws then further prohibit those prohibited persons from even antique firearms. This bill would make PA's laws mirror federal law.

[knight0334]

Let's make it a little easier for everyone. Here's the text of the bill being offered but for a more complete understanding you might want to bring up the UFA to read side-by-side.

Bear in mind that underlined text is an addition and text within [brackets] is to be deleted. But in this bill the deletions are important so I have colored them Green.



As I interpret this bill antique firearms are to be included in the class of weapons not to carried without a license. And persons denied firearms possesion are also denied possession of antique firearms.

Please understand, I'm not a lawyer so if your interpetation differs please advise!

Antique guns that meet the dimensional measurements of a "firearm" are already prohibited from concealed carry, unless you have a license. This bill just rewords it a little better for easier understanding.