laws for shooting in self denfense???

[bravo30]

this is gonna sound crazy but hear me out ! ..... a friend of mine over heard an instructor at a well know gun range in Phila tell a customer the following

'' if your in a 7-eleven and the clerk is being robbed at gunpoint its perfectly legal for you the customer to shoot the guy in the back of the head ''

'' if your in a 7-eleven and a guy wearing a wife beater and shorts that appear to have a ''bulge'' as if he were carrying a gun approaches you and begins to push you around and demand money its perfectly legal for you to draw your sidearm and kill him''


WOW is all I can say to this !! he then stated that all of this is perfectly legal if you have a carry permit .... now im not totally sure of the laws but i consider using deadly force only if im backed into a corner and my life is in danger and im face to face with a deadly weapon and situation

[bravo30]

anybody with a link to a page that contains ''use of deadly force in pa '' please post it so that i may forward the information ... thanks you ,

[GunLawyer001]

'' if your in a 7-eleven and the clerk is being robbed at gunpoint its perfectly legal for you the customer to shoot the guy in the back of the head ''

'' if your in a 7-eleven and a guy wearing a wife beater and shorts that appear to have a ''bulge'' as if he were carrying a gun approaches you and begins to push you around and demand money its perfectly legal for you to draw your sidearm and kill him''

It's a defense that you used deadly force to protect the life of another, so you'd have an argument in the 7-11 case. Perps often shoot clerks after they get paid, and a gun in the face is pretty powerful evidence of intent to kill. There's no requirement that you warn the perp, if he would then be likely to shoot the clerk (or you). You don't have to call the perp out and draw for it at High Noon. Shooting an armed criminal in the back while he's threatening an innocent person with lethal force will likely be excused. Besides, I think you can count on the clerk testifying on your behalf.

As for killing the guy with the bulging shorts, you'd better have a better story than that. The jury (or finder of fact) has to find that you reasonably feared death or a maiming, that you exercised whatever feasible duty to retreat applied, and that you used lethal force only as a last resort.

A carry permit gives you zero extra rights to use deadly force, it's only a defense to unlicensed carry.

[bravo30]

im looking into the castle doctrine and ''stand you ground'' laws now ... maybe thats what that instructor was talking about

[knight0334]

im looking into the castle doctrine and ''stand you ground'' laws now ... maybe thats what that instructor was talking about

PA has no Stand Your Ground law, you must flee if you can with complete safety. PA does have for the most part Castle Doctrine, however you must still be in fear of life/limb before shooting, or only in attempt to stop certain felonies from occurring can you fire. As Castle Doctrine truly means to one's home, PA's law extends it to your place of work as well.

[LittleRedToyota]

the PA use of force laws can be found at the top of this page:

http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

[Brown-Bear]

Shooting a guy in the back of the head WOW. Have a hard time believing that one will be excused just because you have a LTCF. Maybe excused for other legal reasons, but the LTCF in my opinion gives you exactly zero extra liberties.

[LittleRedToyota]

Shooting a guy in the back of the head WOW. Have a hard time believing that one will be excused just because you have a LTCF. Maybe excused for other legal reasons, but the LTCF in my opinion gives you exactly zero extra liberties.

you are correct in that having an LTCF has absolutely nothing to do when you can legally use force.

however, in PA, you can use the same force to protect someone else that you are allowed to use to protect yoursefl.

therefore, if some bad guy had a gun to someone's head, as an example, and that person could not retreat and you were in fear for the person's life, you could legally shoot the bad guy in the back of the head to end the threat to the innocent victim's life...whether you have an LTCF or not.

(ETA: i am only commenting on the legality, not whether or not it is actually a good idea to shoot someone in the head who has a gun to someone else's head.)

[Michele]

Your mentioning these things because you found them to be questionable. And rightfully so.

I won't even mention the lawsuits or mental anguish you will suffer from "shooting someone in the back of the head". That should be obvious.

Deadly force is always the last resort even in the most extreme circumstances.

An LTCF in PA is not a "license to kill".

Maybe your friend should find another instructor. This instructor obviously needs to do some homework himself.

[Thekatar]

There are times when shooting someone in the back of the head might be the right thing to do.

I'm not going to game through every possible scenario, but the flip-side of avoidance, deselection and deterrence is that when you go to Condition Red and the threat trips your mental trigger, you must commit to overwhelming explosive violence.

Sometimes this is lost on the square range, and can be lost even during "combatives" training.

In general, you shoot center mass until the threat stops being a threat. In reality, you may have to sink your blade into someone's throat while shooting them in the guts. Not a pretty picture.