new residence, ordering a gun and poss denial questions

**MicroMonkey** · September 9th, 2011, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by jpan71855

I've been a PA resident for a very long time, but back in 1978 I was convicted of a felony (car thieft) and put on the ARD program! Now all of my court cost and fines were paid including serving my time in the ARD program!
I was told my record would be expunged and now I'm interested in buying a hand gun? Will the PICS turn me down, should I waste the time and look for a hand gun, and go through the process, then file an SP 4-197 Penn Instant Check Syetem Challenge?

why not try and see. I dont know how that all works, but Its worth a shot. you have to do the PICS with rifles also.
I was entered into the challenge also, and it took me 2 months to pick up a rifle even tho I have a LTCF. They call it "research", which in my case was, noone bothered to really look. Ever since that first challenge, they roll right on through with no issues, but you should try it if your shit was all expunged, why not

Do not take this advice!!!

**zackattack784** · September 9th, 2011, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by MicroMonkey

why not try and see. I dont know how that all works, but Its worth a shot. you have to do the PICS with rifles also.
I was entered into the challenge also, and it took me 2 months to pick up a rifle even tho I have a LTCF. They call it "research", which in my case was, noone bothered to really look. Ever since that first challenge, they roll right on through with no issues, but you should try it if your shit was all expunged, why not

This is absolutely HORRIBLE advice! Jpan, please please please don't just "try and see." Lying on the firearm purchase form is a crime (probably a felony, but I'm not 100% on that). Please do either of the following. A) Seek out a lawyers opinion. This is the safest bet, though obviously the most expensive. OR B). Run a background check on yourself through the PSP and print out everything that comes up. Also, find the court papers that say your record has been expunged and anything else that may be relevant to show that you are not a felon. Then try and buy a handgun. If you are denied, at least you have proof that you didn't "knowingly" lie on the purchase form. Either that, or your research will make it clear that you are in fact prohibited in which case DO NOT under any circumstance try to purchase a firearm!

**Xringshooter** · September 9th, 2011, 07:08 PM

Go with zacks advice, try to find out as much about your case and determine if in fact your record has been expunged. If it has, get copies of everything so that if denied you can submit them with the denial challenge paperworK.

DO NOT attempt to purchase before you are absolutely sure that your record has been cleared. Lying on the BATFE Form 4473 IS a felony under federal law.

If your record HAS been expunged, and you can prove it, when filling out the forms you will answer NO to the question that asks if you have ever been convicted of a felony. This is explained on the narrative of the 4473.

**MicroMonkey** · September 9th, 2011, 11:03 PM

ouch. I didnt say he/she should lie on the application. I would never advocate anyone to lie on a firearms application. Sorry if thats how it came across. What I meant was just apply and be truthful, and see how it goes. You cant be arrested for applying. Its my understanding that they will research everything you say on the application, even if you say "yes" to a unfavorable question, but again, im not a expert, im a dumbass lol

**jerkin** · September 9th, 2011, 11:31 PM

AFAIK if you were given ARD and completed it without incident then it doesn't matter if your record was expunged or not, as far as the form goes. You were never convicted of anything so you are not lying on the form as some others have stated. They might still deny you if you have not had your record expunged yet, in which case you would have to appeal the denial and prove that you were never convicted of the crime.

**Xringshooter** · September 10th, 2011, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by MicroMonkey

ouch. I didnt say he/she should lie on the application. I would never advocate anyone to lie on a firearms application. Sorry if thats how it came across. What I meant was just apply and be truthful, and see how it goes. You cant be arrested for applying. Its my understanding that they will research everything you say on the application, even if you say "yes" to a unfavorable question, but again, im not a expert, im a dumbass lol

Actually you can be arrested for applying. It all depends on how he answers the questions. If he answers NO to the question about ever having been convicted of a felony, and his record HAS NOT been expunged, he can get in big trouble with both the feds and the state (lying on the form). If he answers YES to that question, the FFL will stop it right there and, by rights, should report it to the local law enforcement and the BATFE (a prohibited person attempting to purchase a gun). The form 4473 has the warning and the penalties (10 years and/or $250,000 fine) right at the very top of the form. Like anything else you put your name on, you should always read the entire form before doing anything.

Also, they don't "research everything you say on the application". No one (with one exception) regularly sees what you answered on the forms except the FFL. For a long arm, the local LE, PSP and BATFE don't see the federal form (4473) unless they go to the FFL with the necessary documentation to review the form in an investigation. In the case of a handgun, the PSP will only see the form required by them (SP4-113) when the FFL sends it to the Firearms Unit. Completing the background check is done, in most cases, by an automated system using the buyers PA DL - ONLY. The only questions I have been asked by PICS operators was, Ht, Wt, Hair, Eyes, Where born, and answer to question 14 on the 4473 (US citizen?). I have NEVER been asked for any responses to the other question on the forms.

Bottom line - make sure of your status (and have the papers to prove it if necessary) before doing anything.