Another OC Question for all

**TheMan42** · January 15th, 2008, 07:11 PM

Well I was in a debate the other week with my girlfriends mom's boyfriend whom is about 40 years old. He is a big supporter of CC and carries all the time. However it turns out he was quite uninformed about OC as when I told him he could OC wherever, even without a license (as long as you're on foot) he said that he never heard of that and also tried telling me OC wasn't legal in PA unless you are a LEO.

Well I promptly showed him this site and gave him one of those "Your Gun Rights in PA" .pdf files for him to print and the statements he'd made earlier were quickly rectified - he thanked me and told me he would try OC'ing now and carry a printout with him.

However something he brought up originally because he didnt know anything about OC nagged at me, he said that if a local ordinance is passed against OC, that would override the PA state law about OC being legal (with or without a permit) and you would have to abide by the local ordinance, else you get fined, arrested, etc..

I told him I was pretty sure this was false but would check up on it, so my question is - is this true or false, with false being the answer i'm leaning towards.

Also I have one more question, if a business/company has a "No guns" sign posted on the front door (pistol with a red slash through it), does that override your LTCW? In this particular situation, these stickers are on the front doors of Wachovias' here in Whitehall, PA.

**rwilson452** · January 15th, 2008, 07:21 PM

No Local ordinance would have legal standing. The UFA has a clause that prevents this.

If a business has a sign posted indicating no guns. Should you enter you have broken no law. They can tell you to leave. Should you fail to do so you can be busted for trespass.

Originally Posted by TheMan42

Well I was in a debate the other week with my girlfriends mom's boyfriend whom is about 40 years old. He is a big supporter of CC and carries all the time. However it turns out he was quite uninformed about OC as when I told him he could OC wherever, even without a license (as long as you're on foot) he said that he never heard of that and also tried telling me OC wasn't legal in PA unless you are a LEO.

Well I promptly showed him this site and gave him one of those "Your Gun Rights in PA" .pdf files for him to print and the statements he'd made earlier were quickly rectified - he thanked me and told me he would try OC'ing now and carry a printout with him.

However something he brought up originally because he didnt know anything about OC nagged at me, he said that if a local ordinance is passed against OC, that would override the PA state law about OC being legal (with or without a permit) and you would have to abide by the local ordinance, else you get fined, arrested, etc..

I told him I was pretty sure this was false but would check up on it, so my question is - is this true or false, with false being the answer i'm leaning towards.

Also I have one more question, if a business/company has a "No guns" sign posted on the front door (pistol with a red slash through it), does that override your LTCW? In this particular situation, these stickers are on the front doors of Wachovias' here in Whitehall, PA.

**Pa. Patriot** · January 15th, 2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by TheMan42

he said that if a local ordinance is passed against OC, that would override the PA state law about OC being legal (with or without a permit) and you would have to abide by the local ordinance, else you get fined, arrested, etc..

As Rwilson said. No.

Why:
In PA we have state wide preemption thanks to §6120. of the UFA

Relevant part:

(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

Originally Posted by TheMan42

Also I have one more question, if a business/company has a "No guns" sign posted on the front door (pistol with a red slash through it), does that override your LTCW? In this particular situation, these stickers are on the front doors of Wachovias' here in Whitehall, PA.

As rwilson pointed out, signs carry no legal weight.
Normal trespass laws apply.
If your CC, don't worry about it.
If your OC I would NOT enter an establishment that displays no guns signs. What would be the point? You know the policy and they will know you are armed. Nothing good can come of that. Not saying you would, just making a general statement of opinion for the masses.

**gnbrotz** · January 15th, 2008, 07:31 PM

*deleted (the gorilla beat me to it)

**Pa. Patriot** · January 15th, 2008, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

*deleted (the gorilla beat me to it)

That's kind of funny.... Let me explain.

I was thinking that during your hearing, had it gone to testimony, I was half expecting you to choke and say something like "the gorilla made me do it" and point at me in the CH...

**CoyoteJack** · January 15th, 2008, 07:57 PM

If no local jurisdiction can have laws regulating firearm transport and such differing from the State's then how is a LTCF needed for OC in Philly? Or am I misinformed on that requirement?

**God's Country** · January 15th, 2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

That's kind of funny.... Let me explain.

I was thinking that during your hearing, had it gone to testimony, I was half expecting you to choke and say something like "the gorilla made me do it" and point at me in the CH...

Similar to the image I have when a member asks a law related question, and imagine a buzzer going off at any number of homes across Pa., with all the likely suspects fumbling to be the first to pound out a coherent response complete with case law, charts, section, and proper quotation boxes, and hit the reply button first for bragging rights.

**Pa. Patriot** · January 15th, 2008, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by CoyoteJack

If no local jurisdiction can have laws regulating firearm transport and such differing from the State's then how is a LTCF needed for OC in Philly?

Because it is part of the UFA (§6108) IE: State law

**markheck1** · January 15th, 2008, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

That's kind of funny.... Let me explain.

I was thinking that during your hearing, had it gone to testimony, I was half expecting you to choke and say something like "the gorilla made me do it" and point at me in the CH...

No...that's funny!!! LOL

**Pa. Patriot** · January 15th, 2008, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by God's Country

Similar to the image I have when a member asks a law related question, and imagine a buzzer going off at any number of homes across Pa., with all the likely suspects fumbling to be the first to pound out a coherent response complete with case law, charts, section, and proper quotation boxes, and hit the reply button first for bragging rights.

Bragging rights? We get bragging rights?!?