FA BCG legality question

[spacemanvic]

I know what BCM has on their website that states that FA BCG are not considered NFA items, but when you go to the BATF site, I cant find anything that supports that. Also, I found a doc on ATF www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf.../atf-p-5320-8-appendix-b.pdfSimilar
that pretty much states that BCG is a mg part and subject to NFA rules. WTH is going on?

IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING AR-15 TYPE RIFLES

ATF has encountered various AR-15 type rifles such as those manufactured by Colt, E.A. Company,
SGW, Sendra and others which have been assembled with fire control components designed for use in
M16 machine guns.

232

The citations to 27 CFR part 179 have been rewritten as 27 CFR part 479 in conformance with the reorganization of title
27 CFR which became effective on January 24, 2003.

141

The vast majority of these rifles which have been assembled with an M16 bolt carrier, hammer, trigger,
disconnector and selector will fire automatically merely by manipulation of the selector or removal of
the disconnector. Many of these rifles using less than the 5 M16 parts listed above will also shoot
automatically by manipulation of the selector or removal of the disconnector.

Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual reloading, by a single
function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act
(NFA). In addition, the definition of machine gun also includes any combination of parts from which a
machine gun may be assembled, if such parts are in possession or under the control of a person. An AR-
15 type assault rifle which fires more than one shot by a single function o the trigger is a machine gun
under the NFA. Any machine gun is subject to the NFA and the possession of an unregistered machine
gun could the possessor to criminal prosecution.

Additionally, these rifles could pose a safety hazard in that they may fire automatically without the user
being aware that the weapon will fire more than 1 shot with a single pull of the trigger.

In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16, hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt
carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have
been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled
with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1
type parts which are available commercially. The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15
Model SP1 configuration.

It is important to note that any modification of the M16 parts should be attempted by fully qualified
personnel only.

Should you have any questions concerning AR-15 type rifles with M16 parts, please contact your
nearest ATF office. Our telephone numbers are listed in the “United States Government” section of
your telephone directory under the “United States Department of Justice.”

[o1dakota440]

the bcg is NOT an nfa item. but if you use that or any other part of the fire control group from an m16 in an ar15 the atf will consider that able to be readily converted into a machine gun. hope that helps or maybe i misunderstood your question.

[arjohnson]

The BCG itself cannot make a firearm fire fully automatic, it needs the other supporting parts such as FCG, sear.

Plus there is a link somewhere and this has been beaten to death on other forums.

[The_War_Wagon]

The stuff the BATmen don't know (and don't list) could fill a library...

F/A carriers were legalized MANY years ago - all they are (functionally-speaking) is heavier than s/a carriers. Makes cycling of the rifle much smoother and more reliable.

[spacemanvic]

The stuff the BATmen don't know (and don't list) could fill a library...

F/A carriers were legalized MANY years ago - all they are (functionally-speaking) is heavier than s/a carriers. Makes cycling of the rifle much smoother and more reliable.

That's why I went with an LMT BCG. I just find it annoying that ATF doesnt update their docs to reflect the change in laws. To me, it's so that they have wiggle room to prosecute (but what do I know ).

[twoguns]

That's why I went with an LMT BCG. I just find it annoying that ATF doesnt update their docs to reflect the change in laws. To me, it's so that they have wiggle room to prosecute (but what do I know ).

Yeah "wiggle room" is a nice way to say the ATF can make it up as they go along.

Ask David Olofson and Len Savage. They have intimate and first hand experience with the lying criminal agency that is the ATF.

[spacemanvic]

Yeah "wiggle room" is a nice way to say the ATF can make it up as they go along.

Ask David Olofson and Len Savage. They have intimate and first hand experience with the lying criminal agency that is the ATF.

Same thing with the story of Al Woodbridge. In his case, they (ATF) went so far as to get a notoriously anti-2A judge appointed by Carter to rule the case. Al's story is what got me wondering about the conflicting ATF info regarding BCGs. Fast n Furious is just a bump in the road to the ATF, as they seem immune to the law.

Remembering THIS ATF Outrage
The Al Woodbridge Story
by Kevin Starrett
http://www.oregonfirearms.org

Bob Stewart’s experiences with the ATF bear an eerie resemblance to another outrageous case of gun owner abuse.

Al Woodbridge, of Sumner Washington, was a gun dealer, a licensed firearms manufacturer and, unfortunately for him, a very successful pro-gun lobbyist in Olympia.

Woodbridge, known to most as "Big Al," counted among his friends and customers countless members of law enforcement and state legislators. He’d never been convicted of a crime, but none of this would help when the ATF set their sights on him.

In September of 1989, a shipment of gun parts was sent to Al’s shop. The parts were not ordered by Al, but they had been opened in route by Customs agents and later inspected by ATF agents who claimed they thought they were "machine gun parts."

Now it’s interesting to note that agents whose specialty is supposed to be firearms would not know that they were not "machine gun" parts but perfectly legal and unrestricted FN parts. Still, anyone who’s dealt with most ATF agents knows they rarely know what they’re doing.

When Big Al’s wife signed for the package, ATF agents and Pierce County Sheriffs Deputies swooped in and handcuffed her. (Al was not at the shop at the time.)

After cuffing Al’s wife, the agents searched his home and shop all but ignoring the package they would claim was the reason for their search warrant.

The warrant was dated the 21st of September, it alleged an offense that occurred on the 22nd and was not served until the 25th. After entering Al’s home, the agents seized numerous guns claiming they were fully automatic.

Al was charged with violating state machine gun laws, and his property was confiscated .

When Al went to court in July of 1991, the judge concluded that the state’s case was so flimsy that he directed a verdict of not guilty before even hearing Al’s defense. Jurors in the case later told Al they would have acquitted him anyway. It looked like everything was going to be ok, except Al wanted his guns back.

The government refused to return $30,000 of Al’s property telling him "We don’t return drugs to drug dealers and we don’t return guns to gun dealers." Al sued.

Just as Al’s suit was about to be heard, the Assistant US Attorney, William Redkey, indicted Al on the very same charges that had been thrown out of state court.

On the first day of his trial in January of 1994, Al and his lawyer were handed a letter saying that not only had some of his property been "inadvertently destroyed" but two of his guns, a custom made AR15 and a custom made HK 94, were "missing." In 18 years with more than 19,000 gun held in the Pierce County property room, these were the only guns ever to disappear.

The Judge in the case was a Carter appointee who came out of retirement just to hear Al’s case. Judge Tanner’s behavior in the trial created a court transcript that can only be described as Kafkaesque. There is not a single page that does not reflect judicial abuse and misconduct.

Al was allowed virtually no defense witnesses. In fact, the jury was not even allowed to know that Al had a federal firearms license! The "evidence" had disappeared and Al, who was never even permitted to inspect his property, let alone handle it, was accused by the Judge of being responsible for it’s disappearance!

In an open court room with an unsequestered jury, the Judge told Woodbridge (before a verdict had even been reached) "I have no doubt you are guilty." This statement was reported by every major media outlet and read by the jury before the deliberations had ended.

The jury was not allowed to be told that the ATF agent in charge, Ben Silva, had told a woman in another case that he was very good at lubricating the bolts of semi-auto firearms to make them appear to fire full auto, nor were they allowed to know that Silva had bragged about convicting more than 20 defendants based on multiple discharges caused by lubricated bolts or agent’s manipulation of internal parts. This in spite of the fact that that particular boast was caught on a video camera that was running nearby.

After sending the jury off to deliberate, Tanner said to Woodbridge:

"Mr. Woodbridge, there is nothing in the law that prevents me from commenting on the evidence, I haven't done it in front of the Jury, but I could. And what I have heard in this case outrages me. There is only one reason, sir, for a machine gun. It's not a collector's item. It's to kill people, and kill them quickly, and kill more than one at a time."

With no evidence and no defense permitted, Woodbridge was convicted and sentenced to 57 months in prison. The judge even added time to Woodbridge’s sentence because police had found a registered, legal suppressor! Woodbridge was given the maximum sentence by a notoriously anti-gun judge who accused him of "greed" and compared him to Al Capone.

Woodbridge’s sentence was eventually reduced to 46 months and he was released in December of ‘96 He currently lobbies for the Pacific Arms Society and the Western Fish and Wildlife Federation.

The package that started this witch hunt was never even considered at the trial.

Kevin Starrett
Oregon Firearms Federation

[twoguns]

Same thing with the story of Al Woodbridge. In his case, they (ATF) went so far as to get a notoriously anti-2A judge appointed by Carter to rule the case. Al's story is what got me wondering about the conflicting ATF info regarding BCGs. Fast n Furious is just a bump in the road to the ATF, as they seem immune to the law.

I lived in WA when this story happened. I can tell you this was chilling. It sent a message to gun owners and activist everywhere.

All of this is further evidence that the ATF is nothing less than a part of the criminal element in government and they need to go. Their very existence is dangerous to liberty.

[HSR47]

....I just find it annoying that ATF doesnt update their docs to reflect the change in laws....

That's usually because what they're "enforcing" isn't actually law, insofar as it never saw the light of day in either house of congress let alone get signed into codified law by the sitting president.

The BATFE(ARBF) is a criminal agency, and it needs to be abolished in it's entirety, including (but not limited to) the repeal of every law that they sought to enforce, including the Hughes Amendment to the 1986 FOPA, the 1968 GCA, and the 1934 NFA...

[steamtownwelder]

None of these agency's will ever be abolished. I applaud all of you that lobby and write letters. Sadly, I think what we need at this point is more rough men ready to sacrifice the day to day lives they lead in order to send the message that Americans won't stand for this abuse any longer.