Out of State Gunshow - Cash & Carry Handguns?

[15Truckman]

My dad is down at a gun show/antique show/flea market in VA this weekend. He told me this from last year, but I just assumed he was mixed up. He's down there again now, and just double checked on this. Apparently they are selling pistols cash & carry down there. If you buy from a "dealer" (meaning someone with a table) who is a FFL/Gun Dealer you have to do all the requisite paperwork. If you buy from a "dealer" who is just a Joe with a table, cash & carry. In particular he was looking at this guy's .38 Special.

I've never heard of such a thing, and thought that is highly illegal. I've advised him to stick with the legit FFL's, especially since he's from out of state.

[IV_Warrior]

Va law may allow paperless transfers between residents. However, federal law says interstate handgun transfers must go through an FFL in the buyers state of residence.

[15Truckman]

Va law may allow paperless transfers between residents. However, federal law says interstate handgun transfers must go through an FFL in the buyers state of residence.

I thought papered-transfer of handguns was a Federal level law, hence the need to do them at a FFL here. I guess I was mistaken?

[PaBimmerGuy]

its guys like the ones at these gun shows that give gun shows a bad name. they are not disposing of a collection they are running a business for profit. rather than screwing with us atf ought to be going after them.

this is not to say that all non licensed sellers at gun shows are working to skirt the law. ive seen guys who are obviously selling off some of their excess guns.

when you are at every gun show and are selling accessories to go along with the guns and then you have multiples of a particular gun and tell buyers that youll have more next week. something is fishy.

[knight0334]

I thought papered-transfer of handguns was a Federal level law, hence the need to do them at a FFL here. I guess I was mistaken?

Federal requires any interstate transfer of a handgun to go through a FFL in the buyer's home state.

Intrastate transfers are governed by the state in which the transfer takes place. ...which with PA, a record of transfer must take place(except certain family) - so a FFL is needed in PA.

Since your dad is a PA resident, buying a gun in VA is an interstate transfer governed by federal law.

[ungawa]

I thought papered-transfer of handguns was a Federal level law, hence the need to do them at a FFL here. I guess I was mistaken?

Knight covered it, but I'm going to restate it more simply.

No.

Requirement to use an FFL/Sheriff for most handgun transfers in PA is a PA law. If PA didn't have the law, you could sell pistols without an FFL just like rifles. Many states don't have such a law.

Interstate, FFL required for all gun sales. That applies to your father.

[15Truckman]

Federal requires any interstate transfer of a handgun to go through a FFL in the buyer's home state.

Intrastate transfers are governed by the state in which the transfer takes place. ...which with PA, a record of transfer must take place(except certain family) - so a FFL is needed in PA.

Yeah, I thought the distinction was handgun/rifle, not interstate/intrastate.

Since your dad is a PA resident, buying a gun in VA is an interstate transfer governed by federal law.

Which is why I advised him to stick with the FFL dealers there, and that he needs to have it shipped to his FFL back home. I really don't think he's buying anything anyway, he's there more for the antique part of it, but I just wanted to make sure I steered him right.

[y0rlik]

There are two exceptions to the no interstate transfer of handguns.

(1) If you have a C&R license (FFL 03) and the handgun is C&R eligible, then you can do cash and carry.

(2) If the handgun is an antique (certifiably made prior to 1899), then no FFL is needed at all.

Presumably neither applies to the situation in question, so your father will have to have anything bought shipped to an FFL in PA.

[knight0334]

Yeah, I thought the distinction was handgun/rifle, not interstate/intrastate.

Which is why I advised him to stick with the FFL dealers there, and that he needs to have it shipped to his FFL back home. I really don't think he's buying anything anyway, he's there more for the antique part of it, but I just wanted to make sure I steered him right.

There is a difference with handguns and long guns. Under federal law a handgun must go through a FFL in the buyer's home state. A long gun can go through a FFL in any state.

Since you mentioned about your dad looking at a .38spl, I assumed it to be a hanggun and focused my reply only on that.

Your dad can buy the handgun down there. However the seller will have to ship or deliver the handgun to a FFL in PA to transfer to your dad.

[15Truckman]

There is a difference with handguns and long guns. Under federal law a handgun must go through a FFL in the buyer's home state. A long gun can go through a FFL in any state.

I guess I'm not making much sense, but I knew that, too. What I meant was I thought the federal law requiring handgun transfers to go through a FFL in the buyer's home state was the reason why we have to do intrastate transfers at a FFL, too. That the distinction was handguns, not interstate/intrastate. You know how the feds like to mingle in intrastate affairs, too, and figured that handguns being the end-all-be-all OMG!! freak-out to gun-law-creators that made them the distinction.

I think what I'm trying to say is that in regards to handgun transfers, I didn't think the Feds gave as much power to the states as they do....

I think I've got it straightened out now...