How close does .303 compare to 30-06 which is the best?

[Mootness]

From a reloading standpoint, the .303 is a very easy round to load. Since you neck size only to get maximum case life from your brass, you don't need to use lube and you don't need to clean lube off. Loading .303 is just so freakin' easy and quick that you feel like you're forgetting something when you load it. ...

30-06 is also capable of being neck sized only for bolt guns.

My opinion:
availability of platforms: 3006 wins
bullet selection: 3006 wins
availability of reloading components: 3006 wins
availability of retail ammo: 3006 wins
superior ballistics: 3006 wins
some really cool old surplus guns: tie

Well, not so sure about that tie- I think I'd rather have a 1903 before an Enfield. But that's a personal preference.

[goon]

That's a good point - been a long time since I neck-sized anything other than .303 because I've mostly shot lever-actions and semi-autos, but there isn't a reason you couldn't do the same thing with '06.

One thing about the Enfield is that they are unbelievably fast to load and reload with stripper clips. It's true that most all bolt action service rifles can be loaded quickly with stripper clips, but man is an Enfield fast in my experience. If I couldn't have a semi-auto rifle, I think the next best thing would be an Enfield IMO.

[GeneCC]

How close does .303 compare to 30-06 which is the better round? I like the 06 personally in a Remy, SF, Winchester even a Mauser buddy of mines likes .303 and the Enfiled. What do you think?

Better in what way? The two rounds are reasonably close ballistically.

For reloading? 30-06 for a vastly larger bullet selection. Almost every big bullet maker makes .308 rounds, some of them are amazing performers. The 30-06 has a wide range of pressure possibilities too.

Not everyone makes .312 rounds. Certainly not with the great values to be had for .308 rounds.

Yeah, theoretically you can load .308 rounds into a 303 case. I'd strongly urge you not to do it. Just isn't safe.

Accuracy? I wonder if the difference under 600 yards in most rifles is close enough to tell?


I own a 7.7 Arisaka. The Japanese copied the 303 British round. I have to load it very gently. The bullet selection was disappointing. Time hasn't improved it.

Gene

[GeneCC]

1. The German is hardheaded like people from Perry county and he just doesn't know he is dead yet. And its not a check mark it is a red arrow so the people from Perry county can see it who have vitamin deficiencies from eating so many road kills and spot lighted deer.

2. 30-06 = 308, .303 British = .312 with a more devastating bullet with a aluminum nose section that makes the bullet yaw sideways after hitting flesh.

Did they use that aluminium nose in every 303 Brit round? Heck, were they still using cordite up until world war II? Would have thought that the Brits would have transitioned to stick powders ASAP.

Cordite is so primitive.... vaseline, nitroglycerine and nitrocellulose. Hard to meter. I'm not sure of its stability compared to IMRs or the more recent ball propellants.

Gene

[GeneCC]

Will wonders never cease? Barnes is making a Triple Shok X for the 7.62 x 54R, 303 Brit and 7.7 Japanese.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=913729

[bigedp51]

Reality check, I collected .303 Enfield rifles for over ten years and I recently sold many of them to buy "modern" rifles. The first rifle I bought was a Remington 700 in 30-06 that doesn't have a chamber the size of a blimp hangar.

Now think about it, if a Zombie virus breaks out and a Zombie is about to chew your arm off do you want to be spending your time looking for "foreign" .303 ammunition when there is so much American 30-06 ammo on the shelves.

Besides 7.62x39 ammo is even cheaper than 30-06 ammo and you can kill the Zombies for much less.



So remember, take the high ground and shoot the Zombies at long range with a 30-06.
(or if you sell enough Enfields with a heavy barreled .308)

[Pete D.]

"Best?"
Best is such a dangerous word. Silly to use it actually since the quality is so difficult to quantify.
Great discussion, though.

to put it simply the .303 British has killed more big game than the American 30-06 ever will.

"Ever" is a long time.

Given the number of Americans hunting and the number of Brits hunting even world wide I doubt the .303 has killed more game. Remember there are traditionally about 1 mill deer hunters in Pa. How many people would be able to book a safari in Africa a year?

That is kind of a narrow viewpoint. Lots of Americans hunting...true. True also that many of them are not using the .30-06. True also that use of the .303 is not and was not restricted to "Brits".
The million deer hunters in PA being compared to booking a safari. That's just a bad comparison. Better to compare that bunch of hunters to the indigenous population of a country where .303s are the legacy.
Btw - that million hunters ----less than one in three bag a deer. The harvest is something over 300,000, depending on the year. Still a lot of animals.
Pete

[gsteele531]

However, the point was "big game", not PA deer with the 0.303 versus 30.06. These included elephants, rhinos and the large cats. Dave_n

While no doubt elephants, rhinos, and large cats have been taken at times in the past with a .303 clandestinely, you can't get away with using such an anemic caliber on African big game legally in most African countries; .375 H&H and up is required by law, and most professional hunters prefer calibers that start with a .4 and up, such as .404 Jeffrey, .416 Rigby, .458 Magnum, etc. all the way to a .700 NE for dangerous game such as you list. For plains game, .30-06 is the most common cartridge in use in Africa, from Klipspringer to Eland. Can you kill a big cat - particularly the thinner-skinned, like leopard - with an '06? Sure. Would I want one in my hands if menaced by a cape buffalo? Not a chance.

If you look at production volumes of rifles, and given that military rifles are commonly converted to sporters, then (neglecting guns like AK-47, which use intermediate cartridges), the Mauser Gewehr - particularly 8mm - has got to be near the top historically. But with an estimated 1 billion small arms in the world, most of which are in the hands of civilians, rather than armed forces, and about 46% of which are in the hands of American civilians (we FAR outnumber the largest armies in the world, collectively), the choice of American shooters weighs heavily on the statistics of " 'ooh's killed 'ooh." And American shooters don't shoot .303. (I do - but not so much, because my Enfield Carbine kicks like a mule; too much drop in the buttstock). (And the #$%^&* "recoil pad" is a joke.)

Food for thought.

[Fred762]

Pretty close, figure about 200-300 fps slower for .303 fired from a service rifle, over a 22" sporter; at least that is what I got chronographing my No4 MkII vs my 700 Rem. Better?... I handload for both, and for whatever reason I find shooting the Lee-Enfield so much more satisfying. Better is at times hard to qualify, w/o knowing what criteria you need to allow for.

I think folks forget that the Enfield is fast-cocking for a bolt gun..I like them too, just never got around to collecting them as I have always been a Mauser guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFYZHLuxXZ8

[gsteele531]

I think folks forget that the Enfield is fast-cocking for a bolt gun..I like them too, just never got around to collecting them as I have always been a Mauser guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFYZHLuxXZ8

You bring up an interesting point: there is the cartridge, and then there is the (common) weapon. With regard to the cartridge, the .30-06 is clearly superior to the .303 with regard to the range of bullets available in both commercial loads and availability for reloading (.55 grain sabot to 280 grain experimental - squirrel to Grizzly), and with respect to cartridge case volume, which determines maximum velocity attainable for that cartridge, as well as the benefits which accrue to rimless cartridge cases as regards feeding and magazine capacity (the .303 has a larger base diameter than the .30-06, leading to higher capacity for a given magazine depth) - and inferior in any circumstance in which having a rim is preferable from a headspacing or extraction point of view. I'll neglect the issue of boxer vs Berdan primers.

But with regard to the (common) weapon, IF we are restricting the nature thereof to bolt-action, typically as used in military applications, there is NO question that the Enfield action is - from a sustainable volume of fire point of view - superior to every other bolt action ever fielded by a military service. Not, necessarily, I might add, from a simplicity point of view, or accuracy (although the rifles were very accurate, vs. the carbine), but clearly, the Enfield was a top-tier bolt action among those that were deployed over the 20th century. Once the transition is made to modern weapons, however, which are dominated by semi-automatic or select-fire weapons, rimmed cartridges are at a disadvantage. And in full-automatic operation - "assault weapon" applications - with the possible exception of the very heavy BAR, neither is suitable for suppressive fire operation, owing to excessive recoil.

But for pure versatility, including range of bullet weights, range of widely available commercial off-the shelf loads available at the local store, range of commercially available bolt action rifles, and availability of semi-automatic rifles, the .30-06 has to be considered superior. Yet I LOVE my Enfield Carbine. And I mean LOVE it.