Philly Gun Permit Unit Headaches

[soberbyker]

Wow, y'all are so observant.... (sarcasm)

While I'm not afraid to admit that I am former PPD, (must be super hard to tell by the username,

Your user name may be obvious to you, but maybe not so much to folks not from the city. I've lived and worked in and around the city all my life, I didn't make the connection right off, but now that you mention it, 17th district, car 22.

{BimmerJon, J/O my guess}) and Yes, it is my first post, but that does not mean I have not monitored this forum and seen the ridiculousness of the direction that threads take, I , like the rest of you, am interested in the furtherment of protecting the 2nd amendment. I, however, do not see how posting or re-posting numerous news articles that have already been established in the proper forum, serves any purpose in this thread relating to the nightmare of dealing with Philly Gun Permits.

I can't speak for the person who posted the articles but I think they're relevant here in that it just goes to show how screwed up the PPD GU is, corruption within the unit makes you wonder if there is anything that can be done. They make it extremely difficult for law abiding citizens to get a license but "sell" them to people they have a good idea of being prohibited people.

Yes, it does a great job of perpetuating the fact that it is a nightmare, but is that what this is,, just a stitch and bitch blog, or is it to possibly discuss ways to help ease the distress of dealing with 990 Spring Garden?

Until someone brings the PPD in line with the rest of the state there is no way to ease the stress as you put it, the stress shouldn't be there in the first place. Until there is a DA with some balls or a citizen with a great lawyer and endless pockets of money nothing will change in a city that is more concerned with looking like they are doing some thing than actually doing something.

But you are probably right, just keep bitching here, and show that you can use google and post the many, many articles that show how bad Philly is, and that will most likely correct the problem at hand, (or atleast make you feel intelligent!!)

I can at least say I've seen both sides and I know something needs to be done, I don't need to post BS articles to prove or know that! You can attack me if it makes you feel better, but I don't know how that addresses the real problem here, just the same as re posting articles that you had nothing to do with!!!

Not everyone here has had the privilege of seeing it from both sides, all the folks here know is that, by seeing articles like those posted, that the PPD GU is hypocritical, making it all that much harder to get something done.

Remember before attacking me, I'm in the same train of thought as most of you, I just think there can be more constructive thoughts put together, rather than wasting time researching articles of poor behavior which will not help the issue at hand, but will prove you are proficient with Google!!

So how about you start, instead of bitching about what you think we should or shouldn't post in this thread.

.

[DanB1722]

Well, If I must then I'll start. I do apologize for not having more time for a more detailed post but that is my fault.
I notice that every article posted is not only negative (which is very one sided) but every on of them is almost 10 years old!!!!! You think just maybe things have changed since then or no one can find negative articles from more recent, which would prove my point that things are changing.
I agree it is messed up and yes, you are right, it should not be stressful to go there, it also should not be stressful to go to the DMV for license purposes, but it is.
Many things have changed since these incidents/articles occurred. Every administration in place has changed, ie. new Mayor, new Commissioner, new DA, all new "brass" in the PPD, down to all new staff at the Gun Permit Unit.

Believe me when I tell you it is not the people at the GPU who make it difficult or don't want to give out permits. They are there to perform a function and like any other job they too, must follow the rules set forth by their bosses. (Don't blame the waiter for the cook's mistakes!!!)
I see all of your points, I just don't agree with the fact that most of the people here who are bashing the city and the GPU but don't even live in the city nor do they have to deal with what they are complaining about. that certainly does not help bring about change.
I know many people (civilians) who have been down there recently, and the only complaint they had was how crowded it was, therefore long waits. That's hard to control, maybe GPU should set up an appointment system and then if you miss your appointment w/o canceling 24 hours in advance, deny the application. What do you think??

BTW 1722 is a badge not district/car, but good thinking, I didn't even put that together!!

Ironsight, how many "Representatives" do you think read this forum??

[IronSight]

Well, If I must then I'll start. I do apologize for not having more time for a more detailed post but that is my fault.
I notice that every article posted is not only negative (which is very one sided) but every on of them is almost 10 years old!!!!! You think just maybe things have changed since then or no one can find negative articles from more recent, which would prove my point that things are changing.
I agree it is messed up and yes, you are right, it should not be stressful to go there, it also should not be stressful to go to the DMV for license purposes, but it is.
Many things have changed since these incidents/articles occurred. Every administration in place has changed, ie. new Mayor, new Commissioner, new DA, all new "brass" in the PPD, down to all new staff at the Gun Permit Unit.

Believe me when I tell you it is not the people at the GPU who make it difficult or don't want to give out permits. They are there to perform a function and like any other job they too, must follow the rules set forth by their bosses. (Don't blame the waiter for the cook's mistakes!!!)
I see all of your points, I just don't agree with the fact that most of the people here who are bashing the city and the GPU but don't even live in the city nor do they have to deal with what they are complaining about. that certainly does not help bring about change.
I know many people (civilians) who have been down there recently, and the only complaint they had was how crowded it was, therefore long waits. That's hard to control, maybe GPU should set up an appointment system and then if you miss your appointment w/o canceling 24 hours in advance, deny the application. What do you think??

BTW 1722 is a badge not district/car, but good thinking, I didn't even put that together!!

Ironsight, how many "Representatives" do you think read this forum??

At least three browse it, and several more staff members read it as well. Not to mention that I often talk with numeours State Representatives and State Senators about articles I first saw on here.

Over the last year I've researched abuses in the LTCF issuance process on behalf of State Representative Gary Day and others, voluntarily. One thing that's patently obvious is that the PPD GPU doesn't address abuses until it becomes a negative public relations issue. Not only was the GPU closed for more than a month within the past year alone (consecutive days too), they've been forced to apologize recently to a Marine who applieddue to abusive treatment and just changed one of several incorrect points on their supplemental sheet that goes to licensees.

The PPD GPU currently tells applicants they'll take longer than allowed by law to process the applications, they have no statutory authority to require interviews or require references to fill out forms about the applicant, yet I garuantee they won't stop those abuses until it's a pr issue, as usual. Other counties have proven that the process is easy and smooth when run correctly, yet the PPD doesn't seem interested in running it smoothly, because to do so would make it easy for applicants and they seem to do everything they can to find some bogus cause for a denial; or a bogus reason for revocation, to make it more difficult for appkicants to get an LTCF.

[Kodiak]

Wow, I also just realized that only one,, just 1, of the people who responded to my first post, actually live in Philadelphia!!! For those reading, just check the profiles.. These who want to sound like they know how it is, don't even have to deal with the Philadelphia system!!!! C'mon people!!!

IronSight, BimmerJon, and theo, how do you even have anything to say about Philly Gun Permits???

Speaking of Pots and Kettles, oh wait, these users aren't even in the same kitchen!!!!!!!!

Im going to somewhat agree with Dan on this....

Lots of PAFOA members who live on the other side of the state think they are experts when it comes to the city.

And yeah I know im late in the thread.....ah well!

[mythaeus]

Well, If I must then I'll start. I do apologize for not having more time for a more detailed post but that is my fault.
I notice that every article posted is not only negative (which is very one sided) but every on of them is almost 10 years old!!!!! You think just maybe things have changed since then or no one can find negative articles from more recent, which would prove my point that things are changing.
I agree it is messed up and yes, you are right, it should not be stressful to go there, it also should not be stressful to go to the DMV for license purposes, but it is.
Many things have changed since these incidents/articles occurred. Every administration in place has changed, ie. new Mayor, new Commissioner, new DA, all new "brass" in the PPD, down to all new staff at the Gun Permit Unit.

Believe me when I tell you it is not the people at the GPU who make it difficult or don't want to give out permits. They are there to perform a function and like any other job they too, must follow the rules set forth by their bosses. (Don't blame the waiter for the cook's mistakes!!!)
I see all of your points, I just don't agree with the fact that most of the people here who are bashing the city and the GPU but don't even live in the city nor do they have to deal with what they are complaining about. that certainly does not help bring about change.
I know many people (civilians) who have been down there recently, and the only complaint they had was how crowded it was, therefore long waits. That's hard to control, maybe GPU should set up an appointment system and then if you miss your appointment w/o canceling 24 hours in advance, deny the application. What do you think??

BTW 1722 is a badge not district/car, but good thinking, I didn't even put that together!!

Ironsight, how many "Representatives" do you think read this forum??

Dan,
First off, welcome to the forum. We don't have a way to track lurkers/monitorers and can only look at post count so you are new. Coming off your first post without the explanation you added later threw people off. It threw me off, but I didn't respond, nor did I make a connection that you were a cop by your username. It did cross my mind base on your initial post that you were though.

Secondly, I'm glad to have you chime in in the latter post, bringing insights and suggestions to correct the problems with the GPU. You have reinforced further the incompetence of the people who run the place. As we long suspected, rules, processes, procedures put in place from "above" created the bureaucracy that we now have to deal with.

We actually have many complaints about the GPU:

1. 8 to 10 weeks to get a LTCF...Bucks and other counties issue in 15 minutes. I don't care how many more applicants we have here, no amount of bureaucracy can justify that sort of speed.

2. They interview people, asking essentially the same questions that are on the application. Sometimes they try to trick people into making false statements.

3. They denied LTCF for unreasonable reasons such as unpaid parking tickets

4. They handout misinformation about legal obligations when you receive the LTCF

5. They revoke LTCF of victims who had guns stolen out of their cars

I am sure others can add to this list, but waiting in line isn't the real issue. Changing to the appointment-only system won't really help...I think of the doctor's office in this regard.

Do you know how the people who run the GPU are selected? Is it even possible to interject democratic opinion into that post? Maybe Philadelphia gun owners can request for a public meeting with Lt. Lisa King to voice our concern, involving the press. We can certainly brainstorm in this thread together to make it better.

Al

[mollymayhem82]

Wow, y'all are so observant.... (sarcasm)

While I'm not afraid to admit that I am former PPD, (must be super hard to tell by the username, {BimmerJon, J/O my guess}) and Yes, it is my first post, but that does not mean I have not monitored this forum and seen the ridiculousness of the direction that threads take, I , like the rest of you, am interested in the furtherment of protecting the 2nd amendment. I, however, do not see how posting or re-posting numerous news articles that have already been established in the proper forum, serves any purpose in this thread relating to the nightmare of dealing with Philly Gun Permits. Yes, it does a great job of perpetuating the fact that it is a nightmare, but is that what this is,, just a stitch and bitch blog, or is it to possibly discuss ways to help ease the distress of dealing with 990 Spring Garden?
But you are probably right, just keep bitching here, and show that you can use google and post the many, many articles that show how bad Philly is, and that will most likely correct the problem at hand, (or atleast make you feel intelligent!!)
I can at least say I've seen both sides and I know something needs to be done, I don't need to post BS articles to prove or know that! You can attack me if it makes you feel better, but I don't know how that addresses the real problem here, just the same as re posting articles that you had nothing to do with!!!
Remember before attacking me, I'm in the same train of thought as most of you, I just think there can be more constructive thoughts put together, rather than wasting time researching articles of poor behavior which will not help the issue at hand, but will prove you are proficient with Google!!

Nice post.


Just kidding, you fail....Junior.

[IronSight]

Wow, I also just realized that only one,, just 1, of the people who responded to my first post, actually live in Philadelphia!!! For those reading, just check the profiles.. These who want to sound like they know how it is, don't even have to deal with the Philadelphia system!!!! C'mon people!!!

IronSight, BimmerJon, and theo, how do you even have anything to say about Philly Gun Permits???

Speaking of Pots and Kettles, oh wait, these users aren't even in the same kitchen!!!!!!!!

Havging talked with for more than enough people who've gone through the PPD GPU, after having talked with Lt. Lisa King who runs the GPU and Representatives that have worked with the GPU pushing legislation I've opposed, and having researched and compared their process to that in every other county across the State, I've got plenty to say about the PPD GPU.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you're just arguing with people on the internet, enough of us on here are smack in the middle of Penn. Firearms politics to know exactly what we're talking about.

ETA: Stick around though, you've earned some neg rep and taken some flak over complaining about links and posters from outside the city, however, I have no doubt you've got a lot you could contribute to this forum. One thing the members here have been discussing a bit lately is you need a bit of a "thick skin" on here cause when you make an outrageous post or say something dead wrong you'll usually be called on it very firmly.

[mythaeus]

Havging talked with for more than enough people who've gone through the PPD GPU, after having talked with Lt. Lisa King who runs the GPU and Representatives that have worked with the GPU pushing legislation I've opposed, and having researched and compared their process to that in every other county across the State, I've got plenty to say about the PPD GPU.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you're just arguing with people on the internet, enough of us on here are smack in the middle of Penn. Firearms politics to know exactly what we're talking about.

ETA: Stick around though, you've earned some neg rep and taken some flak over complaining about links and posters from outside the city, however, I have no doubt you've got a lot you could contribute to this forum. One thing the members here have been discussing a bit lately is you need a bit of a "thick skin" on here cause when you make an outrageous post or say something dead wrong you'll usually be called on it very firmly.

Take the advice Dan and stay a while.

People outside of Philly have done a lot of good to change gun politics in Philly and usually understand the issues more than most Philly gun owners. Like it or not, as much as they want to ignore it, what goes on in Philly inevitably impact the rest of the state. IronSight, along with many non-Philly members, for example was down here protesting PPD abuse of OCers not too long ago. theo, like many members on PAFOA, even though being outside of Philly is very knowledgeable about what's going on in Philly because of what have been reported here by Philadelphia members. For the most part, PAFOA members, regardless of where they are from are knowledgeable about gun politics around the state and country a lot more than you think.

Al

[thundrr1]

Dan, welcome to the forum!!!!!! We need more cops (ex cops) on here. It does help balance things out. I, for one, respect your opinion and look forward to your future contributions....It would be nice to see it from "the other side".

[DanB1722]

Firstly and most importantly, I do apologize if anyone feels I attacked them personally. My first post was just out of frustration from reading the whole thread and seeing the huge left turn it took from the OPs post.

I could take the time and address each post that dislikes my thoughts, but what good would that really do? I will say that I did not even know about this "rep power" thing (and I still don't) but I also don't really care, I don't look at this as a popularity contest. Take all the pos rep you want add $5 to it and you can probably get a good cup of coffe at Starbucks. For those that don't like me, oh well, not so sure I'm going to lose any sleep over it. I think what you may not realize is that I'm on the same "side" as you, I am firmly for our Gun rights, I just think that we can find better ways to achieve our common goal than what's going on here. It seems like the typical protest type stuff where the protesters find one thing to grab and hold on to, to try and prove their side of the issue, then the blinders are on and they see nothing else.
MollyMayhem, as intelligent as you so obviously are, I think your opinion is not worth the 3 seconds it took me to read it, but thank you anyway for your very insightful and well thought out post.

I believe what needs to be understood when discussing the personnel who staff the GPU is the fact that, while you do have to put in a transfer request to be considered for the unit, and then the powers to be fill positions an needed. The GPU staff has nothing to do with how the process works, they just do what they are told to do by their bosses, Lt. King included (yes, even she has a boss!!) GPU staff does not make the rules or guidelines that are to be followed. This is one reason I think it is unfair to just blindly put all the inadequacies of the system on their shoulders. Now when it comes to attitudes and such, and if they act torwards anyone that they have the power to approve or deny an application is where a problem arises!! Basically they are info takers and should treat everyone with respect.
OK, Sorry but I've lost my train of thought now, I'll see where this goes and try to get back with more info.
Just for the record, for anyone who cares, I'm retired/disabled at the ripe age of 38. The PPD screwed me over by forcing me out on a "32" (which is a disabilty pension, after being injured on the job). I was 4th on the list to be promoted to Sgt. and they wouldn't allow me to get my promotion. So now, just call me Mr. Mom.... 4 month old twin girls are much harder to deal with than going to work everyday in the super fine neighborhoods of the "Badlands"!!!!