Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Philadelphia View Post
    You have a point and you know what my answers would be. I'll change it around a little for you and this is real world, not some puke liberal fantasy either (trust me in that I'm no liberal by any stretch, just a realist who tries to keep tabs on what's really going on):

    1. 2 punk white male kids in Kangol hats and fur jackets with a tec 9 stuffed in the front of their pants and the butt and foot long high cap magazine sticking out above the belt line, on the East side of the street.

    2. 2 clean cut black guys with XDs or Glocks OC in Serpas, on the West side of the street.

    An alley behind me (trying to set a scenario I can't just avoid either way).

    Which side of the street you think I'm walking on? The guys with the Serpas get the thumbs up as we walk together trying to avoid any interaction with the punks.

    Please excuse me if it came off as a white black thing. Just off the top of my head 2 extremes that I've seen recently.

    Hawk,
    Toujours prêt

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by wboggs View Post

    I cant say I blame the police for inquiring; how would it look if at that hour they didn't ask and when they left everybody there was shot up and a hundred bucks was missing from the cash register? They're only doing their job and besides, they didn't frisk you or anything.

    Lets face it, they no doubt figure you didn't walk in there after seeing police cars in the parking lot, open carrying, and intend to shoot people up,
    This is precisely why I have a problem with the the way these two particular LEO's handled the situation. They DID know the OP was not there to engage in criminal enterprise precisely because of the patrol cruisers in the parking lot. Most criminals are dumb but they aren't completely witless.

    Frankly, I don't find the fact that LEO's sometimes "stretch" the truth a bit in order to determine intent. IMO it's no different than the way prosecutors and defense attorney's ask "calculated" questions of witnesses in trials.

    However, IMO, the "perfect" LEO response would have been:

    "Sir, I see you're openly carrying a firearm. Are you aware of the risks regarding weapon retention"?

    To which I personally would have replied:

    "Yes I am . But I find it uncomfortable to dine while wearing a coat".
    Tony
    412.310.7838
    http://www.fireinstitute.org

    "... there's trained and untrained" (Denzel Washington -- Man on Fire)

  3. #53
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    Nov 2007
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by RWhiteman View Post
    Thats a good question. I dont feel it to be a "eyes on you" situation at all. He didnt say anything that I recall would imply that I need to expect to see him again.

    If anything--and I very well may be wrong--since I cooperated to the fullest extent one could cooperate, I think If I see either of those officers again they would have a "this is a good kid" feeling left over.

    It was the leading reason I acted the way that I did. I dont want enemies, period. I dont want LEO enemies. I dont want LOCAL LEO enemies. Believe me, I had a morbid curiousity right below my skin that wanted to buck agaisnt what was happening. Part of me wanted to be a snot and have them attempt to crucify me so I could run on here and post it. But what good does that do?

    Like I mentioned, the first thought running through my mind as a response to the "why do you have a gun" question was "the right of an individual to bear arms in defense of self and state SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED!"

    It would have made for a more exciting story. I would be sitting here feeling like a crusading gorillaman. But then Id be nervous driving to work down Rt. 30.
    I think you're right about these cops being decent cops and I don't have a crystal ball either but if you gave them any reasonable answer to that question other than "to shoot up the place," I suspect they would have been satisfied. The answer you were thinking of would seem to have been perfectly OK.

  4. #54
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    Mountain Top, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by RWhiteman View Post
    I would be sitting here feeling like a crusading gorillaman. .
    o_0

    What, exactly, are you implying here?

  5. #55
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    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyF View Post
    This is precisely why I have a problem with the the way these two particular LEO's handled the situation...
    Me too. From our account of this incident their motive was personal rather than professional. Their job as police officers didn't make them obligated to ask these personal questions.
    I know some here disagree but I can only surmise they are more tolerant of police fishing than I am. It's kind of similar to the DUI checkpoint argument...

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by RWhiteman View Post
    Yeah, But if I was gonna say that, I would have said it NASTY!

    "...SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED!!"
    You forgot the "... Insert {tazer sound}


  7. #57
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    o_0

    What, exactly, are you implying here?
    I am sitting at my keyboard LOL.
    Tony
    412.310.7838
    http://www.fireinstitute.org

    "... there's trained and untrained" (Denzel Washington -- Man on Fire)

  8. #58
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    Nov 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Clearly my analogy of stopping someone before getting in a car was missed' if driving a car was as unusual as seeing a common citizen openly carry and a car was known as a killing machine; the cop WOULD STOP AND INQUIRE.

    Frankly all who say it wouldn't affect them at tall aren't being truthful; a plain clothed citizen carrying is so unusual you for damn sure would look twice and wonder. That is human nature, it's the reason racism can never go away; anyone that is different, in any way, is treated different.

    I dont think there's any difference between a casual friendly conversation from a cop when he encounters the extremely rare open carry as being screened at the airport before boarding. I dont think you guys are being honest with yourselves, you cant see the forest for the trees. You are so into carry that you think it should be so common as to make no difference when you, one in maybe 5,000 or more, shows up with a gun strapped to your side. YOU STICK OUT LIKE A FREAKING SORE THUMB!!!! PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK AND COPS WILL MORTE LIKELY ASK A FEW QUESTIONS. I'M GLAD THE DO; at least as glad as getting on a plane with a little better hope of not being used as part of a missile.

    Cops feel best when they are the only ones with a gun; that's natural and you're expecting way too much for it not to be. Especially as bad as society has become.

    This is no doubt going to be a 20 pager and I give up.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Acme, Pennsylvania
    (Fayette County)
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    That's a good post by the OP. Even though the LEO's were being nosy I am glad it turned out ok and they didn't cop a huge attitude.
    "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive." - Elbert Hubbard

  10. #60
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    Moscow-ish, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    Dave brings up an interesting issue.

    Suspicion.

    I have a general question for the masses.

    1)If you see someone carrying a handgun in a holster, in the open, would you be suspicious?


    Opinions?
    Not at all.....for the same reasons that have been shared on the forum time and time again - Criminals typically don't tote their firearms in a High Noon retention holster hooked to a Wilderness Instructors’ Belt.
    Rational people do not typically go into businesses and hold up the joint at gunpoint. I would bet on the stereotype that Pennsylvania’s licensed citizens are typically rational people. I don't find OC'ing as alarming...

    ....HOWEVER.....

    Speaking of stereotyping and the notion that licensed citizens are rational people - I WOULD be put on edge if someone entered the diner with what appeared to be a firearm in a Mexican Carry manner. And don't give me "yeah but IWB holster..." or "Clipdraw...." - those are typically still carried in the 2-4 O'clock position. Mexican Carry is typically in line with the belt buckle. And how many people do you know are gonna OC with Thunderwear??!!

    Stereotype? Yup! I PERSONALLY do not consider Mexican Carry as smart or rational - and if any of our PAFOA community carries in this manner....I'd be on alert in your presence. That method of carry is NOT typical of the LTCF community.

    Your thoughts??
    Gary in Pennsylvania
    -------------------------------
    “No One Can Make You Feel Inferior Without Your Consent.” Eleanor Roosevelt
    “Argue For Your Limitations……And Sure Enough, They’re Yours.” Messiah's Handbook
    “The unexamined life is not worth living.” Socrates 399BC

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