Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by P89 View Post
    I guess that is where profiling comes into play. A degernate looking mofo will get a different reaction that say an older gentleman in a camo hat & coat.
    I'd think I agree.

    So your saying that you would not be "automatically" suspicious? Only if the impression of the person OC'ing was otherwise not normal?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    I dont know if you're a writer or not, but if you're not; you missed your calling.

    I cant say I blame the police for inquiring; how would it look if at that hour they didn't ask and when they left everybody there was shot up and a hundred bucks was missing from the cash register? They're only doing their job and besides, they didn't frisk you or anything.

    Lets face it, they no doubt figure you didn't walk in there after seeing police cars in the parking lot, open carrying, and intend to shoot people up, and since open carry doesn't require a license, why ask? I bet my left arm though they knew you were licensed. Just like another situation I read about somewhere, a guy drew his weapon in an attempted car jacking and after the BG's left dialed 911. The cop never asked to see the license and the carrier asked why not; the cop replied, people carrying illegally dont dial 911 and admit it.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    Dave brings up an interesting issue.

    Suspicion.

    Since Dave won't "argue the issue" further I have a general question for the masses.

    1)If you see someone carrying a handgun in a holster, in the open, would you be suspicious?

    2) And more importantly, why? Is it because of the implied intent of the OC'er, based on how previous crimes are played out or is it the stigma of the gun? IOW, what are you basing this suspicion on, factually or hypothetically.

    3) It was stated in this thread that: "If I saw someone walk into a restaurant at 3:45 am with a gun on their hip OC'ing I would be suspicious too."
    Would any of you be less "suspicious" of someone OC'ing at 3:45 in the afternoon? Why?

    Opinions?

    I have seen unfamiliar people OCing three times in the past and regardless of the time of day or night, yes it always makes me suspicious if I don't know who they are.

    Cops OCing don't bother me. Seeing 20 people OCing at the range doesn't bother me. Armed security for Brinks don't bother me. Seeing Emptymag OC while walking his dog at night wouldn't bother me cause I know him. Military personel OCing doesn't bother me. The guy behind the counter at the gunshop OCing doesn't bother me.

    Are you going to try and tell me you wouldnt get suspicious at all if someone you don't know walk into a resturant at 3"45am OC'ing?

    There happy I'm arguing with you again?
    "Having a gun and thinking you are armed is like having a piano and thinking you are a musician" Col. Jeff Cooper (U.S.M.C. Ret.)
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final


  4. #24
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM55 View Post
    That's not funny. I'm not passing judgment on OC'ing. Just saying I'm suspicious of someone I don't know OC'ing.

    Comparing my reactions to Stimpy's from another thread is asinine.
    Dave,
    Actually, I thought you'd laugh. (Lead balloon I guess?)
    I thought it was obvious that your reaction was rational, vs Stimpy's borderline psychotic reaction.


    I think I'm understanding you more than you think I am.
    (did that make sense?)
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Emptymag View Post
    I will simply say that I THINK(depending on a WHOLE lot of factors)that I would be more suspicious of a person's intentions if I caught a glimpse of a handgun under a coat, than I would if I saw it on one's hip.

    That said, there are WAY too many variables involved in assessing this type of situation to say what would get my Spidey senses tingling.

    The only time I ever saw someone OCing, my reaction was "Hey honey, check it out!" "That guy at the checkout is OCing!... Cool!"
    Good points. I too am more suspicious, in general, of those that I do not know are carrying (but might be) or that I know are carrying and hiding it. PROVIDED they are not conforming to my narrow minded view of what "normal" is. Everyone has their own idea what suspicious is, to them.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    I'd think I agree.

    So your saying that you would not be "automatically" suspicious? Only if the impression of the person OC'ing was otherwise not normal?
    Correct. There are tell tale signs of someone who is high as a kite or just the like.
    Shifty bloodshot eyes usually mean shady. There's alot I'm not mentioning but it gives a picture.

    What EM said in #22 are also good points
    Last edited by P89; December 27th, 2007 at 11:13 AM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot View Post
    Dave brings up an interesting issue.

    Suspicion.

    Since Dave won't "argue the issue" further I have a general question for the masses.

    1)If you see someone carrying a handgun in a holster, in the open, would you be suspicious?

    2) And more importantly, why? Is it because of the implied intent of the OC'er, based on how previous crimes are played out or is it the stigma of the gun? IOW, what are you basing this suspicion on, factually or hypothetically.

    3) It was stated in this thread that: "If I saw someone walk into a restaurant at 3:45 am with a gun on their hip OC'ing I would be suspicious too."
    Would any of you be less "suspicious" of someone OC'ing at 3:45 in the afternoon? Why?

    Opinions?
    I would no doubt take a second look and have a bit of "wonder" then go back to my business or if the opportunity presented itself, talk to the individual about guns. It's so not something you see everyday so it will get a second look from anybody.

    Fat chance it's a BG carrying openly so from that perspective, I would treat him like anybody as a threat (maybe a little less knowing he's probably "One of us").

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM55 View Post
    There happy I'm arguing with you again?
    Well, yes. I thrive on it It is my breakfast wheaties.
    Seriously, it's hard to understand each other without discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM55 View Post
    I have seen unfamiliar people OCing three times in the past and regardless of the time of day or night, yes it always makes me suspicious if I don't know who they are.

    Cops OCing don't bother me. Seeing 20 people OCing at the range doesn't bother me. Armed security for Brinks don't bother me. Seeing Emptymag OC while walking his dog at night wouldn't bother me cause I know him. Military personel OCing doesn't bother me. The guy behind the counter at the gunshop OCing doesn't bother me.
    This is what I was trying to say. The above is your personal perception. Not human nature. If it was human nature to be suspicious of someone OC'ing or carrying a gun you would ne suspicious of yourself and LEO and the gun shop guys. IOW, your relating the gun to a non uniformed or other familiar person as suspicious. Not everyone os going to do this, or not for the same circumstances.


    I might be suspicious of someone with baggy pants and a big mouth. It's my personal perception, based on my perception of what those things represent. Not human nature and not necessarily the same way you would react.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM55 View Post
    Are you going to try and tell me you wouldnt get suspicious at all if someone you don't know walk into a resturant at 3"45am OC'ing?
    No, I'm not going to say either way because I am not there and I can not personally profile the person.
    I will say that someone OC'ing is not an automatic flag for suspicion, for me. It is not a automatic reason for a positive response either.
    Upon seeing someone (else ) OC I will either be suspicious or comforted based on the rest of the circumstances incuding the OC'ers appearance and demeanor.
    I guess m biggest point is that it is not an automatic red flag as you seem to be implting it is for you. I just see no reason for a gun to = suspicion, in and of itself.

    EmptyMag's post is a good example of what I'm saying.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by wboggs View Post
    I would no doubt take a second look and have a bit of "wonder" then go back to my business or if the opportunity presented itself, talk to the individual about guns. It's so not something you see everyday so it will get a second look from anybody.
    From my personal experiences OC'ing and the observations I've made of other people's reaction to my OC'ing, I'd say this is the reaction (the way I've read it) of the vast majority of folks that actually even notice. I've seen what I would consider to be obvious "gun guys", taka e a second look and go on their way. Also have had a few people come up and ask about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wboggs View Post
    Fat chance it's a BG carrying openly so from that perspective, I would treat him like anybody as a threat (maybe a little less knowing he's probably "One of us").
    I concur. Lacking any other "suspicious" (to me) behavior or appearance, the OC'er is the bottom of my threat assessment for the moment.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Police confront OCer

    Quote Originally Posted by P89 View Post
    I guess that is where profiling comes into play. A degernate looking mofo will get a different reaction that say an older gentleman in a camo hat & coat.
    BONK!!! What does a criminal look like?

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