Viper's OC log

[Tom488]

Forcing an internal extractor, as is found on most 1911's, to snap over the rim of a cartridge subjects it to extra force that it wasn't meant to handle. Rack the slide slowly, and watch as the magazine pushes a round up - as the slide comes forward and strips a round from the magazine, you'll see that the rim of the cartridge slides behind the extractor claw - meaning the extractor never has to snap over the rim. In fact, most pistol designs do the same thing. However, it's not as difficult for an external extractor to snap over the cartridge rim, as the extractor is designed to pivot. An internal extractor is fixed - the tension comes from the springiness of the extractor itself, not from an external spring.

I usually load my SIGs by dropping a round in the chamber, then slowly letting the slide down. Gentle thumb pressure on the back of the slide is all that's necessary to get the extractor to snap over the rim - because it's an external extractor. Try that with a 1911 (with an internal extractor), and it will take a LOT more force.

[Sgt.K]

Forcing an internal extractor, as is found on most 1911's, to snap over the rim of a cartridge subjects it to extra force that it wasn't meant to handle. Rack the slide slowly, and watch as the magazine pushes a round up - as the slide comes forward and strips a round from the magazine, you'll see that the rim of the cartridge slides behind the extractor claw - meaning the extractor never has to snap over the rim. In fact, most pistol designs do the same thing. However, it's not as difficult for an external extractor to snap over the cartridge rim, as the extractor is designed to pivot. An internal extractor is fixed - the tension comes from the springiness of the extractor itself, not from an external spring.

I usually load my SIGs by dropping a round in the chamber, then slowly letting the slide down. Gentle thumb pressure on the back of the slide is all that's necessary to get the extractor to snap over the rim - because it's an external extractor. Try that with a 1911 (with an internal extractor), and it will take a LOT more force.

Saved me all that typing. Thanks.

To expound slightly, those who are familiar with the AR bolt will know that the extractor is spring loaded and is *designed* to snap over the rim from behind, where the 1911 is most certainly designed to have the round slide up into place. I did watch someone load a single round that way into a 1911 during a match when he ran short and hadn't loaded his 3rd magazine, but he wouldn't have done it as a regular thing.

[ViperGTS19801]

Forcing an internal extractor, as is found on most 1911's, to snap over the rim of a cartridge subjects it to extra force that it wasn't meant to handle. Rack the slide slowly, and watch as the magazine pushes a round up - as the slide comes forward and strips a round from the magazine, you'll see that the rim of the cartridge slides behind the extractor claw - meaning the extractor never has to snap over the rim. In fact, most pistol designs do the same thing. However, it's not as difficult for an external extractor to snap over the cartridge rim, as the extractor is designed to pivot. An internal extractor is fixed - the tension comes from the springiness of the extractor itself, not from an external spring.

I usually load my SIGs by dropping a round in the chamber, then slowly letting the slide down. Gentle thumb pressure on the back of the slide is all that's necessary to get the extractor to snap over the rim - because it's an external extractor. Try that with a 1911 (with an internal extractor), and it will take a LOT more force.

Now THIS is how you answer a question. I learned something new today!

[ViperGTS19801]

For three years running now, my family and I have been going to the Schnecksville Fair up here in the Lehigh Valley. On both of our first two visits, I was stopped at the entrance to the fair by a security guy, who was a little leery of letting me in with an openly carried pistol. On both occasions, we had a quick discussion about the legality of open carry, and the fact that I have my LTCF. Also in both cases, the supervisor for the auxiliary Allentown PD force that staffs the security there confirmed that as long as I do not cause a problem, they have no problem with me carrying openly, as it is perfectly legal.

This week's visit further reinforced that stance, and I have tons of respect for the people who run this fair. Now, a lot of this might have to do with where we're located - there's no fair in the world that would simply 'allow' open carry in the Delco or Philadelphia region - and since moving up here, I really haven't had any true negative experiences about carrying.

Here's how things went...

My daughter is ten, so she loves this kind of shit. The fair is one of the most anticipated events of the summer, and we'll be going every year they have it. She also likes making faces at me whenever someone does talk to us about my open carrying, usually a teasing glance about how silly it is that someone felt the need to mention it. So, she got a big kick out of the interaction that we had on the StarShip 300 - a large, spinning spaceship looking ride where riders go inside and lean with their backs to the walls, and as the ride spins up to full speed, the walls slide up with the centrifugal force of it. If you've been to the Kiwani's Fairs in Philadelphia, you may know it as the Gravitron.

Anyway, we'd been at the fair for about half an hour and had already been on the Scrambler. In fact, the little one had already done the Junior Firefighter's Challenge, and as we left, one of my brothers-from-another-station snarkily commented on my left-handed holster, "Damned southpaws," as we left the attraction, with a grin on his face. The fair was a little more packed than usual this time around, which made me a little uncomfortable, but it wasn't awful - just enough for me to have my elbow making near-constant contact with the rear of my 1911 whenever we weren't walking about. I'd prefer to be concerned about retention over being defenseless any day.

I digress. We got in line for the StarShip and boarded, and took out spots. The ride operator came inside before it got started and made a show of checking someone else first, asking them if their cell phone holster would be able to hang on trough the ride.

Then he came over to me, looked me over quickly, and said, "You gotta leave that outside."
"No."
That took him by surprise. After a brief pause, he repeated himself. "You have to leave that out."
"Says who?"
"My boss."
"That's funny, because the head of security doesn't have a problem with it. We've been coming here for years and he says it's fine."
I could tell that he wanted to keep giving me a hard time about it - and other riders were now starting to look over and talk amongst themselves - but I was not to be deterred.
"Well...is the safety on?"
"Of course."

With that, he sort of just turned away and left the ride. We rode, had fun, and I wobbled off along with everyone else after all was said and done. My fiance rejoined us (she doesn't do spinny rides) and had this big grin on her face.

"So, that was interesting."
"What's up?"
"Well, you see that guy over there, with that horrible Hawaiian shirt? He saw you carrying as you got on the ride and he was not happy about it."
"Oh yeah?"
"Yeah, he got all irritated and went to the ride operator, and I was trying to listen to him. He said he didn't like you having your gun, and that it could go off on that ride, so the operator came in I guess to talk to you, and when he came out, he told the guy that there was nothing he could do. And wow did that make him upset. So his wife then went off and was talking to some of the staff about it."

I told her about the conversation I'd had with the ride operator, and we headed over to the Tilt-a-Whirl. By this time, the ride operator from StarShip had come over and was having a conversation with two other staffers. A few minutes later as we stood in line, one of them came over.

"Hey there - mind if I ask you to do me a favor?"
"What can I do for you?"
"I have no problem with you having a firearm - I just wanted to ask you one thing. If you planned on going on the big slide over there..." He pointed to the giant slide that's about 45 feet tall and has those three giant bumps in it. "...I'd like to ask that you not. The bottom of that slide has a pretty nasty jump and it smacks you down pretty hard, so if you could not ride that one, we'd really appreciate it."

Now, I had no plans on riding that anyway - even Shea is a little too old for a big slide - but even if we were, I didn't really have an issue with his request because, frankly, if something were to go wrong, I could see why they might believe that'd be the place for it. I maintain my firearms very well and I have no doubt that nothing short of an act of stellar bad luck would cause any sort of malfunction, but, as I said, that'd probably be the most likely place for that to happen. So, I agreed with him, and he thanked me for being so courteous about it.

Then, another gentleman came over and introduced himself. His name was Judd, and he said he was the manager of the event.

"I just want you to understand that I have absolutely zero problem with you carrying here. I mean, it's something we never have to deal with because open carry is so rare, but you already said you have your license to carry, and you seem like someone who's been through this song and dance many times before, so far be it for me to tell you not to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. You have the right to protect yourself and your family and we're not going to get in the way of that - but I gotta tell ya, we've had no less than half a dozen people bring it to our attention. It can make certain people uncomfortable, you know? Listen, you have a great time tonight, and if anyone else gives you a hard time about it, you tell them to come see me."

We chatted about it for a couple more moments before it was our turn to get on the teacups, but that was about it. No other mention or issue was made of it, and we pretty much forgot about the whole thing for the rest of our stay. We enjoyed the fireworks - and the fire it started in an adjacent field - and the three giant, uncontrolled cookoffs of gunpowder that left a 100 foot smoke ring in the sky for ten minutes at the end of the night.

Boom, baby.

[Mitch10mm]

Thanks for telling of this experience. Just today as I was getting ready to go out I thought about my oc Glock 19 and spare mags on my belt and how it must make some people really uncomfortable. Some days I think "the hell with it, nobody else carries". Of course then I see the news about someone being attacked or something like Orlando.
I carry for protection, for the Second Amendment and for those "teaching moments".
I get angry at myself for those moments of shame, where I feel I should be hiding. It's sad that the anti gunners say America is a culture of guns because we no longer are. I wish we were or are again. It's not a bad thing. We should remember things like personal responsibility and independence.

Thanks Mark I needed this today

[bogey1]

Would the people that felt uncomfortable fell the same if you had a cop shirt on?

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks for telling of this experience. Just today as I was getting ready to go out I thought about my oc Glock 19 and spare mags on my belt and how it must make some people really uncomfortable. Some days I think "the hell with it, nobody else carries". Of course then I see the news about someone being attacked or something like Orlando.
I carry for protection, for the Second Amendment and for those "teaching moments".
I get angry at myself for those moments of shame, where I feel I should be hiding. It's sad that the anti gunners say America is a culture of guns because we no longer are. I wish we were or are again. It's not a bad thing. We should remember things like personal responsibility and independence.

Thanks Mark I needed this today

As relatively close as we are geographically, it's a shame we don't live in the same town.
Although I can't carry to or during work, it takes me into Maryland and Wash DC, but in PA
I open carry full time, everywhere. I might even add one of my NRA hats, or my "I Love Guns and
Coffee" t-shirt.

Right now, and from about a week prior to Memorial Day, through Flag Day, and a bit past Independence
Day my 1911 is sporting it's US Flag grips. I always get a lot of compliments on those.

After all this time I still get my fair share of "teachable moments" and I'm still handing out flyers on
occasion, although I make sure they know we have a tough time keeping them up-to-date, I also point
out the various references and forums and encourage them to check it out. The flyers always seem to
surprise people, in a positive way.

Just this past weekend I saw an OC'er I didn't recognize, but I was unable to say anything. To be sure we
are definitely a micro-minority within a minority, but we are out there.

[rwilson452]

I needed some stuff this morning. Off to Walmart. Its the only place I can get some stuff at a reasonable price around here. As I covered 3/4 of the store, no stares, no question, nothing. As usual. Rural living does have its advantages.

[Mitch10mm]

Indeed and I do run into a lot of guys that tell me they are carrying concealed. I haven't had but a couple negative reactions. Lancaster and surrounding counties have been very positive encounters. Sometimes I just get that thought in my head. Today it didn't help that I was going to an unfamiliar bank.

[rwilson452]

Indeed and I do run into a lot of guys that tell me they are carrying concealed. I haven't had but a couple negative reactions. Lancaster and surrounding counties have been very positive encounters. Sometimes I just get that thought in my head. Today it didn't help that I was going to an unfamiliar bank.

I have seen a few that "carried concealed". I spotted them. Because I didn't want to upset them I didn't tell them I noticed, nor did I stare at them. I ignored them. It seems the right thing to do.