An “open” letter to my fellow gun owners

[andrewjs18]

good open letter that t1m0thy wrote...

link-
http://libertythinkers.com/creative-...ow-gun-owners/

Dear Fellow Gun Owners,

I posed a question to a local law enforcement officer and asked him when he last arrested a criminal carrying a holstered firearm openly. He paused for a moment and admitted he couldn’t remember. I have gotten similar responses from other police officers I have asked that question and the reason is very simple: criminals don’t open carry.

Openly carrying a firearm gets some mixed responses from the public and police. While most will agree it is legal and it is your right they often decry open carry based on so-called “common sense” arguments that present themselves as rational and reasonable. I will show you they are nothing of the sort.

One of these arguments is that a criminal will take your gun or see your gun and it will make you a target. However, if you look at studies done by the Department of Justice 57% of criminals polled in prison say they fear one thing more than police…an armed citizen. Most criminals are not looking to make their job more difficult. They want easy targets and don’t want to risk their own lives. So, more times than not, openly carrying a firearm will actually deter a crime before it happens. If you happen to be concealing your gun, you will just appear like everyone else, and in a situation where you have to draw your gun and fire it in defense your risk factor goes up substantially when the situation might have been avoided altogether had the assailants seen you were armed to begin with.

If you happen to think this is mere bunk then you might want to talk to the police in Kennesaw, GA who arrested a group of armed criminals outside a Waffle House who had told the police they decided not to rob the business because one of them who was sent in to scout saw two men openly carrying firearms.

An analogy to clarify this idea is to look around at all those little signs in people’s yards letting everyone know their home is protected by a security system. They “advertise” like this to let any potential criminal know that they should move on to the next house because their home is protected. Open carry is a gun owners way of doing exactly the same thing.

Open Carry deters crime.

Another word of wisdom from the “common sense” crowd is that people can be frightened by your gun and it might draw negative attention from the public. While this may be true on its face due to sheer ignorance, when I ask people, “Don’t you want to know who has a gun around you?”, most will admit that they do.

In the past, concealing a weapon was a crime while openly carrying a gun or other weapons was the sign of a gentleman or an honest citizen exercising his right to bear arms. Only in modern times has that role been reversed and indeed to the detriment of public safety and to the rights of gun owners. I do respect the desire to carry concealed but in context it should be considered the more deviant method to carry a weapon as it is the chosen method of criminals. Openly carrying a firearm is a sign that you have nothing to hide and that you are simply an honest, law abiding citizen carrying a gun for self defense.

Criminals conceal, law abiding citizens carry openly.

Finally, we come to the conceited wisdom that those of us who open carry are going to ruin it for everyone else and make the government pass laws that further restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

First of all, please provide one example of this occurring. Not only can you not provide such an example, it is more likely that we have had encroaching laws that violate our second amendment because gun owners have not been visible exercising their rights. I am sure the individuals offering their saged advice would have condemned Rosa Parks for not taking the back seat because she was generating negative attention to the rights of African Americans. It amazes me to see fellow gun owners condemning legal, responsible activity that helps educate the public on gun rights.

Secondly, the idea that we should lay low and not alert anyone to our rights only serves those who blossom from ignorance and seek to slowly strip away our rights piece by piece. Ask the gun owners of England and Australia how that worked out for them.

Open carry educates the public.

While I am making these points let me make it clear that I do not condemn anyone for how they choose to exercise their right to bear arms. I simply hope that someone who has bought into the argument that those who open carry are irresponsible and harming the second amendment will take a second look at the facts and apply some real common sense to their opinions instead of listening to those who would hide themselves in the shadows and demean those of us who are trying to help restore the right to bear arms to its rightful place in society as a respectable and responsible activity that no one need fear or resent.

Be armed. Be safe.

Sincerely,

Timothy Havener

[GunLawyer001]

Not a bad letter, and it does bring together some issues.

What I wonder about are the realities underlying the arguments. To the extent that any of the advocates argues that "bad guys do this " or "nobody does that", it would be useful to know the facts, if they can be ascertained.

I haven't heard a lot of stories of bad guys snatching guns from holsters, although it's a truism that a lot of cops are shot with their own guns; but then, the cops are confronting and engaging bad guys, who then become desperate, so the bad guys are strongly motivated. Non-LEO's are not usually backing perps into a corner. And retention holsters are a deterrent.

On the other hand, unless you're in a room of mirrors, you will always have a blind side, and criminals are almost always short-sighted idiots who seize on opportunities to get free stuff. If they think they can come up behind you and grab your gun, I suspect they would; but then again, I don't hear a lot of such stories. The only people routinely disarming OC'ers seem to be cops.

I doubt that there's any scientific way to measure whether potential crimes are deterred by open carry. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I personally believe that gun owners are following part of the successful gay & lesbian playbook. Maybe 30 years ago, being gay was generally considered to be wrong and shameful. Then a significant group of them decided to fight back, and they pursued an in-your-face strategy which has almost inarguably mainstreamed them today. Not all of them are out of the closet, but that closet seems to be hosting a lot of cable TV shows.

We don't have the MSM on our side like they do. But we do have 400 years of American history and culture, while the anti-gun weenies have nothing but the cesspools of major cities to use as showcases for their policies. So there's that. Plus the Supreme Court finally noticed that there's text between the 1st and 3rd Amendments.

So in general, I say, "we're here, we're armed, get used to it."

[ares armor]

I really wish that unlicensed loaded open carry was an option over here in CA. The fact that criminals know that if they see someone open carrying that the weapon is unloaded makes it that much more possible to become a target if they wanted to steal a weapon.

There are few things in life more dangerous than having an unloaded firearm.

[fastfordman390]

here in PA, i have a LTCF, but do i put my LTCF in jeapordy by OC. the laws says that i could have my LTCF revoked for OC. has anyone here in PA ever know of this happening to anyone? i would like to OC, but dont want to lose my LTCF over it, on the other hand, if i do have my LTCF revoked, it would be open carry all the time. thank you in advance

[BimmerJon]

here in PA, i have a LTCF, but do i put my LTCF in jeapordy by OC. the laws says that i could have my LTCF revoked for OC. has anyone here in PA ever know of this happening to anyone? i would like to OC, but dont want to lose my LTCF over it, on the other hand, if i do have my LTCF revoked, it would be open carry all the time. thank you in advance

Sounds like someone told you there is a "law that would revoke your LTCF for Open Carrying". I can tell you in 100% certainty, there is NO such law in PA.

Whoever told you that is dead wrong.

In Phila, since it is a city of the 1st class, you need a LTCF to OC or CC. Everywhere else in PA, you can OC without a LTCF.
Just because you have obtained your LTCF, does NOT mean you no longer can OC

A LTCF is not a concealed carry permit and does not take away your ability to OC (You don't have to conceal) <---- Unless in a state park, I believe there you have to conceal

[Brick]

here in PA, i have a LTCF, but do i put my LTCF in jeapordy by OC. the laws says that i could have my LTCF revoked for OC. has anyone here in PA ever know of this happening to anyone? i would like to OC, but dont want to lose my LTCF over it, on the other hand, if i do have my LTCF revoked, it would be open carry all the time. thank you in advance

I think it would serve you well to go to the reference section of this site, carefully read through all of the Pennsylvania firearms laws there and then return here and post the chapter and section that says it is illegal to OC if you have an LTCF.

If you are a gun owner and a concealed or open carrier, you should do it anyhow. I will guarantee in advance you will not find a law that says your license will be revoked for open carry. You might find a cop, Police Chief or Sheriff stupid enough to say it, but they would be wrong.

[fastfordman390]

To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so.

With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:

1.Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement.
2.Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation.

i was refering to the second statement. i didnt say that OC was illegal, or even that i WILL have my LTCF revoked, but the way i read it, i COULD have my LTCF revoked or atleast have it seized and sent back for revocation. i was just wondering if anyone has heard of this happenig. or am i not reading this right?

[legendarylorot]

Your original post implied that if you open carried, you'd lose your LTCF. The fact o hte matter is that you CANNOT lose your LTCF unless you do something that would cause you to lose it regardless of your carry type. OCing really doesn't matter in that respect.

Your second post implies that being stopped by a LEO would result in a revoked LTCF. Again, not the case. As long as you don't do anything illegal (or inredibly stupid), you're in the clear. They may (illegally) take it, depending on the department stopping you and how poorly they know the law, but your LTCF is still valid. You can file charges regarding unlawfully seized property and ask your local sheriff for an extra copy- which you probably have from the original issuance anyway.

Feel free to OC with confidence. Despite all the encounters you se posted here, the most common type of encounter is the non-encounter.

[fastfordman390]

my second post reffers to the open carry law that is posted on this sight under the open carry laws. i am sorry if i am not reading it right, but it does say that i COULD have my LTCF seized and sent back for revocation if i open carry.

[tl_3237]

i was refering to the second statement. i didnt say that OC was illegal, or even that i WILL have my LTCF revoked, but the way i read it, i COULD have my LTCF revoked or atleast have it seized and sent back for revocation. i was just wondering if anyone has heard of this happenig. or am i not reading this right?

Yes it happened twice to PAFOA members:

http://www.gnbrotz.com/images/revocation.jpg

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/329...tml#post432667

Greg is one of the moderators here and was revoked for open carry while voting in 2007 -maybe he'll chime in.

Meleanie was revoked for OC at a soccer game in 2008. She is deceased.

It should be noted that both revocations were challenged and reversed by the courts - restoring the LTCFs to both plaintiffs.

There are theads galore on both these instances on this site.

Haven't heard of any new case in the past 3 years.