Lancaster Arms AK-47 damage

[marinville]

A buffer is not a solution. Do not install one.
That is not how these rifles were designed to work.

All you do is reduce the amount of space the bolt carrier has to dissapate recoil energy.
Making it hit sooner with more force. And thinking a little piece of polyurethane somehow magically absorbs all of that energy.

It doesn't. It sends it right back into your shoulder through the stock increasing felt recoil.

It will absolutely stop the marring he is getting on the bolt carrier and receiver. If the bolt carrier doesn't hit the rear of the receiver, then there is not going to be any more damage.

This is a milled receiver AK. There are no rear rivets to back out. Adding a gas regulator is adding one more component to break.

You are correct that the rifle was not designed with a buffer, but it wasn't designed with a gas regulator either. The fact is that the rifle isn't working as it was designed to, therefore it needs a fix. Neither of our suggestions are Kalashnikov designs, but a buffer and a new recoil spring is a lot simpler of a fix then tapping the gas block, and IMO alters the design considerably less.

Also, I've heard multiple accounts of makeshift buffers being used overseas on actual select fire AK's, and I've never once heard of them installing gas regulators.

What happens when you blow that set screw into outer space during sustained fire? Now you have a gaping hole in your gas block and your action won't cycle.

[mrnyman]

Not for nothing but that bolt looks like shit, my MAK 90 is machined 100 times better, $1600? WOW!

Send that GUN BACK, moreover a properly running AK should not have to buffered to keep it from tearing itself apart.

Send it back and ask them to complete manufacture on that GUN.

[Asmodeus6]

It will absolutely stop the marring he is getting on the bolt carrier and receiver. If the bolt carrier doesn't hit the rear of the receiver, then there is not going to be any more damage.

This is a milled receiver AK. There are no rear rivets to back out. Adding a gas regulator is adding one more component to break.

You are correct that the rifle was not designed with a buffer, but it wasn't designed with a gas regulator either. The fact is that the rifle isn't working as it was designed to, therefore it needs a fix. Neither of our suggestions are Kalashnikov designs, but a buffer and a new recoil spring is a lot simpler of a fix then tapping the gas block, and IMO alters the design considerably less.

Also, I've heard multiple accounts of makeshift buffers being used overseas on actual select fire AK's, and I've never once heard of them installing gas regulators.

What happens when you blow that set screw into outer space during sustained fire? Now you have a gaping hole in your gas block and your action won't cycle.

It will stop it from marring but it still impedes the travel of the bolt carrier. I've been through this. It doesn't matter if it doesn't have rivets to pound out. Heavy receiver hits exacerbate recoil. And you obviously have no idea what I even suggested about a set screw. It goes IN THE GAS BLOCK HOLE. The existing one. Which means when you blow it into outerspace, (which you won't) it returns to being overgassed and the original port size. Which does not impede function what so ever. You tap the existing hole, install a set screw maybe 2mm tall with a smaller hole drilled in it. And you're done. All the benefits, no more pounding, less recoil. And zero change in design. Unscrew the screw. Everything is back to just the way it was.

I've dealt with an over gassed rifle of my own. I've tried everything you, and I recommended. What you suggested does not work. What I suggested does.

It's that simple.

If you want to argue about recoil buffers. Here's a bunch of people who already have.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52713

I'm not continuing that one any further.

[Son of a gun]

DO NOT SEND YOUR RIFLE BACK TO LANCASTER......
i sent my stock to them near thanksgivng i get calls from them saying that it is shipping.. it has shipped.... they will rush the order to me....

they have a lot of promises but no results... i called just yesterday it takes a week for a call back.... when they do they will take all your info and promise the world... then you can call again next month and repeat..

they told me they shipped it 3-4 times....lol

i have had no problems with my ak (other then the cracked stock) it looks built good but their customer sevice SUCKS BIG TIME

[marinville]

It will stop it from marring but it still impedes the travel of the bolt carrier. I've been through this. It doesn't matter if it doesn't have rivets to pound out. Heavy receiver hits exacerbate recoil. And you obviously have no idea what I even suggested about a set screw. It goes IN THE GAS BLOCK HOLE. The existing one. Which means when you blow it into outerspace, (which you won't) it returns to being overgassed and the original port size. Which does not impede function what so ever. You tap the existing hole, install a set screw maybe 2mm tall with a smaller hole drilled in it. And you're done. All the benefits, no more pounding, less recoil. And zero change in design. Unscrew the screw. Everything is back to just the way it was.

I've dealt with an over gassed rifle of my own. I've tried everything you, and I recommended. What you suggested does not work. What I suggested does.

It's that simple.

If you want to argue about recoil buffers. Here's a bunch of people who already have.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52713

I'm not continuing that one any further.

Except that the OP never complained about excessive recoil, only about his bolt carrier and receiver getting damaged. With no rivets to back out, and a buffer between the carrier and receiver, excessive recoil isn't hurting anything. Not to mention that an extra power recoil spring will reduce the force of the carrier coming backwards to begin with.

And you are right, I did not understand where you intended to install the set screw, but that doesn't mean I do not understand what you are trying to do. Now that I have heard your plan, I still don't understand how you intend to properly access and tap the existing gas port on a 45 degree angle, without pressing off the front site block and gas block.

Regardless, if it was my gun I would try the extra power spring and buffer before I tapped the gas block and installed a set screw. As easy and cheap as it is to do so, I wouldn't be losing much if I was not satisfied with the results. That is all I'm saying. If that didn't work, maybe I would consider tapping the gas block.

[Asmodeus6]

This is making me a tad bit insane.

Do you even have an AK? If you do, go pull the gas tube and shove a drill bit (not in a drill) down the gas block and into the hole. 1/8" should fit. You can do the same thing with a tap. You do not need to disassemble the gas block from the rifle to tap the gas hole in the gas block.

As for how do I know it's banging off the rear of the receiver? Well because I've dealt with this same issue in my own rifle. And it was hitting so hard you could feel the impact forces through the stock in your face. It was like getting punched in the face. As bad as it was, I did not have damage to the rear trunion or bolt carrier. HE DOES. Which means his is hitting EVEN HARDER. And I saw a drastic reduction in felt recoil after jetting down the gas on the rifle. No more ringing through the stock, less muzzle flip, less recoil forces. On his, it will be even more pronounced.

After trying everything from a recoil buffer, Wolff XP spring, to different muzzle brakes etc. I found NO SOLUTION but to reduce the obviously oversized gas port in the gas block. The only way to stop the carrier from impacting the rear of the receiver is to decrease the amount of gas acting on it. The only way to do that, is to drop the orifice size in the gas block, or push the barrel out, and install a new one with the correct size gas hole in it, and the gas block.

Basically pull half the rifle apart. Or tap 5 threads in the gas block and install a small inlet restrictor in stream of the gas system.

What would you prefer to do? Your "options" won't fix the problem, I've been there done that. It's over gassed. Severely. Those bolt carriers aren't made out of tin, and neither is the receiver. So if you've deformed both surfaces it's impacting way too hard, and way too often. This is a gas system problem, which is fixed by pulling the barrel, or dropping the port size by some other method. To which I have offered a simple one.

Step one is change the recoil spring. I said that on page 1.
If you get the same results. (Likely)
It goes back to the Lancaster CS black hole probably for months... to be pulling back apart and perhaps put together correctly with a new barrel with the appropriately sized gas port.

OR you install a set screw as a restrictor. Which takes maybe 10 minutes.

[marinville]

This is making me a tad bit insane.

Oh, ok.

Do you even have an AK?

Yes, and with my gas tube removed I can not see the gas port in the barrel. I would not personally drill or tap something that I can not see. EDIT: Alright, this I will take back. In proper light, I CAN see it.

As for how do I know it's banging off the rear of the receiver?

I never asked that.

I've dealt with this same issue in my own rifle. And it was hitting so hard you could feel the impact forces through the stock in your face. It was like getting punched in the face. As bad as it was, I did not have damage to the rear trunion or bolt carrier. HE DOES. Which means his is hitting EVEN HARDER.

Yet he never complained about the recoil. In fact, he said: "It shot flawlessly and WAS my favorite weapon."

I saw a drastic reduction in felt recoil after jetting down the gas on the rifle. No more ringing through the stock, less muzzle flip, less recoil forces. On his, it will be even more pronounced.

He did not ask for a way to drastically reduce felt recoil. That is my point. He asked for a way to stop the damage to his carrier and receiver.

The only way to stop the carrier from impacting the rear of the receiver is to decrease the amount of gas acting on it.

Not true. With a buffer installed the carrier WILL NOT impact the receiver. It will impact the buffer, obviously. No More Marring. An extra powered spring will also reduce the chances of the carrier impacting the receiver.

The only way to [reduce the amount of gas acting on the carrier], is to drop the orifice size in the gas block, or push the barrel out, and install a new one with the correct size gas hole in it, and the gas block.

True, but that doesn't make it necessary if the spring/buffer stop the damage.

What would you prefer to do?

If the spring/buffer did not work, I would have a new barrel installed.

This is a gas system problem, which is fixed by pulling the barrel, or dropping the port size by some other method.

Agree with bold.

Step one is change the recoil spring. I said that on page 1.

I agree, and I understand that this did not work for you, but It may work for him. I would also add a buffer, you are obviously against this. I am sure, however, that some people have had positive results from them.

And to me, step two (for when step one doesn't work) is to fix it the right way, by replacing the barrel, not to add a non factory designed non spec restrictor to the gas system.

[marinville]

Also, where are you getting your information about the proper size of the gas port? In my rifle, a 9/64'' bit does fit in the gas port. This is NOT a Lancaster Arms rifle, it is a Century build.

Although Century's reputation is hit or miss, the gas block itself is mil surp, and thus would not have been monkeyed with (though the barrel is US). There is a hole in both the gas block and the barrel. And both easily accept the 9/64'' bit.

Regardless, I have never had any problems with the gas system, or with trunnion hits, or with excessive recoil.

To clarify, this is a yugo m70b1.

[Asmodeus6]

He did not ask for a way to drastically reduce felt recoil. That is my point. He asked for a way to stop the damage to his carrier and receiver.

Not true. With a buffer installed the carrier WILL NOT impact the receiver. It will impact the buffer, obviously. No More Marring. An extra powered spring will also reduce the chances of the carrier impacting the receiver.

Because he doesn't know any better. Seemingly you share the same problem.

The buffer is not a stationary (fixed) object in the receiver. It transmits force applied to it into the rear of the receiver (milled) or the rear trunion (stamped) because it's just a piece of polyurethane sitting against the rear of the gun. So the bolt carrier STILL hits the rear of the receiver. It just does so SOONER, and with MORE FORCE with the hunk of poly you put in there.

You are solving ONE symptom of a larger problem.

Which would be the marring of the receiver because the bolt carrier is slamming into it way too hard. It's still going to be coming back just as hard, and in your case, hitting sooner.

Problem not solved.

When I had this problem I went through 4 different recoil springs from "known good" rifles. No change. I then installed the XP spring from Wolff. Same problem. Zero improvement. When it's hitting that hard, it's hitting that hard and the spring will not solve your problem. I installed a buffer. It felt the exact same as it did without one. I removed the muzzle brake. Slight reduction in how heavy the BCG was hitting the rear trunion. Hmmm... getting somewhere. Obviously the brake traps more gas as it directs it through it's baffle. Brake back on - it hits harder. OK - gas problem.

I replaced the gas block.

Same problem.

WHAT THE FUCK.

Then I simply tapped the gas block hole, ground off the back side of the set screw until the allen hole was the diameter of the hole. This dropped the effective port size by about 20%.

Problem solved.

The best part is, you get increased velocity as well. The less gas escaping through the gas port puts more energy to the bullet. My POI was 2" higher after installing the restrictor. There is also a notable reduction in recoil when the carrier isn't hitting the trunion. So much so, I've done it to rifles without "issues" and still felt an improvement in recoil, and flip. Some of mine, of some of others. Which is why, for such a simple thing to do, it's not even worth sending the rifle back to the Lancaster abyss to be gone for months when I could have fixed the damn thing in the time it took me to post this.

Which I will happily do if the OP wants to bring it over.
For free.

[marinville]

Also, where are you getting your information about the proper size of the gas port? In my rifle, a 9/64'' bit does fit in the gas port. This is NOT a Lancaster Arms rifle, it is a Century build.

Although Century's reputation is hit or miss, the gas block itself is mil surp, and thus would not have been monkeyed with (though the barrel is US). There is a hole in both the gas block and the barrel. And both easily accept the 9/64'' bit.

Regardless, I have never had any problems with the gas system, or with trunnion hits, or with excessive recoil.

To clarify, this is a yugo m70b1.

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