Non-resident LTCF CCW Open Carry

**chucksniper** · March 7th, 2011, 12:53 PM

Hi Fellas,
I just called Philadelphia LTCF permit office and asked about a licence for Philly in addition to Pennsy and non-resident permit... there is no Philly licence if one has a LTCF for PA or a reciprocity LTCF licence. Some here know this, but I figured I would post it for us Jersey guys.... ya know?

The phone number is 215-685-3663... be safe.

**donm** · March 7th, 2011, 01:43 PM

You do need to be aware that Philly just passed an [illegal under state preemption law] ordinance that makes it illegal for anyone to carry in Philadelphia on a non-resident license other than a PA LTCF. It will clearly be struck down in court, but that will require a test case with the associated time and $$ investment. And of course OCing in Philly would make you a very likely candidate.

**phillykev** · March 7th, 2011, 01:47 PM

How would you legally get your gun from NJ to PA in order to carry it?

**soberbyker** · March 7th, 2011, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by donm

You do need to be aware that Philly just passed an [illegal under state preemption law] ordinance that makes it illegal for anyone to carry in Philadelphia on a non-resident license other than a PA LTCF. It will clearly be struck down in court, but that will require a test case with the associated time and $$ investment. And of course OCing in Philly would make you a very likely candidate.

None of this matters since the ordinance is illegal to begin with, BUT the ordinence does state we do have (some) reciprocity:

(2)(a), the following persons shall not be prohibited from carrying a firearm upon the public streets or public property:
(a) a person licensed to carry a firearm or to hunt by a state with firearms
laws similar to the firearms laws of Pennsylvania, and which provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed by Pennsylvania. For purposes of this subsection (a), only the following states are deemed to have firearms laws similar to those of Pennsylvania: Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota and Utah.

http://legislation.phila.gov/attachments/11105.pdf
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**knight0334** · March 7th, 2011, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by chucksniper

Hi Fellas,
I just called Philadelphia LTCF permit office and asked about a licence for Philly in addition to Pennsy and non-resident permit... there is no Philly licence if one has a LTCF for PA or a reciprocity LTCF licence. Some here know this, but I figured I would post it for us Jersey guys.... ya know?

The phone number is 215-685-3663... be safe.

There is no "Philly permit". There is only a Pennsylvania LTCF, which is issued by the county sheriffs or in the case of a City of the First Class, by the Chief of Police. A PA LTCF is good throughout the state including Philly. There is also no such thing as a "non-resident LTCF", there is only a LTCF which is issued to residents and non-residents. The non-resident has the additional burden of requiring a license/permit from their home state first if they issue licenses - only (3) states are exempt from that burden, WI, IL, and VT.

A PA LTCF or a reciprocal license is all you need to carry in Philly. However, since you are in NJ you will not be able to transport your gun to PA to just merely carry it. You would have to comply with NJ law on transporting, which is limited to trips directly to and from a range or gunsmith.

**chucksniper** · March 7th, 2011, 05:59 PM

Sorry but there is no law regarding transportation when leaving NJ.

**phillykev** · March 7th, 2011, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by chucksniper

Sorry but there is no law regarding transportation when leaving NJ.

Unless you can magically transport yourself to the border, you would be travelling within the state of NJ, which you cannot legally do with a firearm unless you are operating under one of the exceptions:
.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
.A person going directly to a target range, and;
.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

Also, even if you could, you would be limited to carrying ball ammo because hollow points are illegal except within the confines of your property and when transporting it from place of purchase to your property.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/firearms.html

**knight0334** · March 7th, 2011, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by chucksniper

Sorry but there is no law regarding transportation when leaving NJ.

Yes there is, see the above post.

**uniballin** · March 7th, 2011, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by chucksniper

Sorry but there is no law regarding transportation when leaving NJ.

here we go again...

**soberbyker** · March 7th, 2011, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by phillykev

Unless you can magically transport yourself to the border, you would be travelling within the state of NJ, which you cannot legally do with a firearm unless you are operating under one of the exceptions:
.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
.A person going directly to a target range, and;
.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

Also, even if you could, you would be limited to carrying ball ammo because hollow points are illegal except within the confines of your property and when transporting it from place of purchase to your property.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/firearms.html

Not quite .... there are other exemptions .....

Provided certain conditions are met, a sportsman may transport and use hollow point ammunition. There are no restrictions preventing a sportsman from keeping such ammunition at his home.

N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

(2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].
Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

As with other ammunition and firearms, a sportsman would have to comply with the provisions of N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f and g when transporting hollow nose ammunition to a target range. The ammunition should be stored in a closed and fastened container or locked in the trunk of the motor vehicle in which it is being transported. The course of travel should be as direct as possible when going to and leaving from the target range with "only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances." N.J.S.A 2C:39-6g.

If the sportsman's club member plans to hunt with a rifle and use hollow nose ammunition in a state where this is permitted, he must comply with the provisions of U.S.C.A. 926A and N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f) and (6)(g), which is consistent with the federal law, in transporting the firearm and ammunition. The firearm should be unloaded and neither the firearm nor the ammunition should be readily accessible from the passenger compartment. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the firearm and the ammunition should be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or the console. 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

In addition, the sportsman should have a valid hunting license in his possession from the state in which he plans to hunt and should be familiar with that state's gun laws. N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f)(2) requires a person hunting in this State to have a valid hunting license in his possession while traveling to or from the hunting area. Hunting with hollow nose ammunition is permitted in New Jersey. In the case of a New Jersey resident traveling to another state to hunt, it logically would follow that the hunting license would be from the state where the hunter is going. Although the federal statute does not require possession of a hunting license, it does require that the person transporting the firearm be going to a state where possession of that object is lawful. A valid hunting license from that state effectively supplies the proof.

These conditions for use and transport of hollow nose ammunition are consistent with the legislative intent to restrict the use of such ammunition to a limited number of people. It is well established that in construing a statute exceptions are to be "strictly but reasonably construed, consistent with the manifest reason and purpose of the law." Service Armament Co. v. Hyland, 70 N.J. 550, 558-559 (1976). The State Supreme Court has "characterized the Gun Control Law as 'highly purposed and conscientiously designed toward preventing criminal and other unfit elements from acquiring firearms while enabling the fit elements of society to obtain them with minimal burdens.'" Id. at 559.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html
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